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Thread: The Likely DNA Of Predynastic Egyptian Mummies?

  1. #11
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    Predynastic Upper egyptians were classified as "North African" craniometrically , and as North african/Levantine culturally ,
    , not only they had Mediterranean hair , but also Mediterranean skin characteristics, ( the arid climate of south egypt has preserved the skin structure of the naturally mummified mummies and anthropologists were able to identify it as Mediterranean skin type) ,this two characteristics don't exist as typical traits in high SSA admixed groups
    african affinity were often claimed to be minor.




    Gebelein mummies most likely had a Genetic profile similar to Arabian Bedouins, with some IranN ancestry. They postdate the IranN-related influence in south egypt.

    Some of there figures


    Last edited by Ramses; 12-29-2020 at 12:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses;732532[B
    ]Predynastic Upper egyptians were classified as "North African" craniometrically , and as North african/Levantine culturally[/B] ,
    , not only they had Mediterranean hair , but also Mediterranean skin characteristics, ( the arid climate of south egypt has preserved the skin structure of the naturally mummified mummies and anthropologists were able to identify it as Mediterranean skin type) ,this two characteristics don't exist as typical traits in high SSA admixed groups
    african affinity were often claimed to be minor.




    Gebelein mummies most likely had a Genetic profile similar to Arabian Bedouins, with some IranN ancestry. They postdate the IranN-related influence in south egypt.

    Some of there figures


    Upper Egyptians classified as Levantine culturally?
    Could you reference a single recent peer reviewed publication that argues this? Just one please. And i will give you the available literature on this that says the very opposite.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 12-29-2020 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Aggressive language

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    “The vast majority of hair samples discovered at the Predynastic cemetery site HK43 (Hierakonpolis, Upper Egypt, c.3500 BC) were cymotrichous (Caucasian) in type as opposed to heliotrichous (Negroid), a feature which is standard throughout dynastic times. (…) Although most of the hair found is the natural dark brown color, natural red hair was also discovered ... samples were examined microscopically”

    Fletcher 1998

    “Negroid hair is by nature heliotrichous, the tight frizzy curls proving difficult to work in comparison to the straight to wavy cymotrichous (Caucasian) hair of the Egyptians.“

    Fletcher, 1995, p.443

    Analysis of the mummy of Ramses II (c.1303-1213 BC):

    “the race (of the mummy), by diameters, indices, angles and cranial or facial profiles: is an a priori Berber type. … the hairs, of exceptional interest because of their state of conservation, are fine, supple, slightly wavy by place, of a reddish-blond colour pulling hard towards yellowish. Of oval cross-section, and cross-referencing all other anthropometric observations, they are characteristic of the hair of a “cymotrichous leucoderm", close to the Mediterraneans of Prehistory, like a Berber, of white skin - and not of a Nubian, of black skin.... Microscopic examinations revealed a practically intact morphology and natural red pigments: he was therefore a real redhead.”

    Bulletin of the National Academy of Medicine, France (1987)

    Analysis of Takabuti's hair (660 BC):

    “When Takabuti was unwrapped, a lock of her hair was kept separate, this hair is an auburn [red] colour (…) We cross-sectioned the hair … there are three types; there’s mongoloid, caucasian and negroid. This is all determined by the shape the cross section makes, and Takabuti was more caucasian”

    BBC 2016

    "Professor Rosalie David, an Egyptologist from The University of Manchester said: “This study adds to our understanding of Takabuti (…) Research undertaken ten years ago gave us some fascinating insights, such as how her auburn [red] hair was deliberately curled and styled.”

    https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discove...eath-revealed/

    “Takabuti, was a female who lived in ancient Egypt during the 25th Dynasty, c.660 BCE. … Takabuti belonged to mitochondrial haplogroup H4a1. Neither H4 nor H4a1 have been reported in ancient Egyptian samples, prior to this study. The modern distribution of H4a1 is rare and sporadic and has been identified in areas including the Canary Islands, southern Iberia and the Lebanon. H4a1 has also been reported in ancient samples from Bell Beaker and Unetice contexts in Germany, as well as Bronze Age Bulgaria. We believe that this is an important finding because first, it adds to the depth of knowledge about the distribution of the H4a1 haplogroup in existing mtDNA, thus creating a baseline for future occurrences of this haplogroup in ancient Egyptian remains. Second, it is of great importance for archaeological sciences, since a predominantly European haplogroup has been identified in an Egyptian individual in Southern Egypt, prior to the Roman and Greek influx (332BCE).”

    Drousou et al. 2020

    Other ancient H4a1 samples:



    Note the Guanche samples at the bottom.

    “We observe five different H sub-lineages in the indigenous people of the Canary Islands (Guanches): H1cf, H1e1a9, H2, H3 and H4a1e. … The presence of lineages derived of H1e1a and H4a1 in both European Neolithic and the Canary Islands ancient samples corresponds with Eurasian prehistoric intrusions in North Africa. (…) Our data are in agreement with recent aDNA data from Morocco and further evidence of a complex pattern of Mediterranean migrations in North Africa. Archaeological records in the Maghreb support this result, and also suggest further European intrusions during the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age eras.”

    Fregel et al. 2019

    "Guanche mummies are the intentionally desiccated remains of members of the indigenous Berber Guanche people of the Tenerife. The methods of embalming are similar to those that were used by the Ancient Egyptians."

    Guanche mummies

    “The Guanche mummy of Madrid is a mummy of an ancient Guanche individual, which is now on display at the National Archaeological Museum of Spain in Madrid, Spain. … It is a person of masculine sex, in an excellent state of preservation … and belongs to a man between 30 and 34 years … The individual in question, has all his teeth very well preserved, without any wear and tear, has "caucasian features" (including brown red hair) and his hands that do not reveal that he had done hard physical work.”

    Guanche mummy of Madrid

    Red-haired Berber/Amazigh lady from Algeria:



    https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/algerias-d...report-1526304

    "The Berber populations of Morocco and northern Algeria have occasional redheads. Red hair frequency is especially significant among the Riffians from Morocco and Kabyles from Algeria."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_ha..._Mediterranean
    Last edited by Philjames; 12-29-2020 at 08:13 PM.

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    updated H4a1 table: https://i.imgur.com/CFNFc3n.png

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    Interesting sample from Jeong et al. 2020:


    OLN004 Olon Dov, Arkhangai Mongolia Central JeongCell2020, Uyghur, Mongolia EMA 744-840 AD female H4a1a1a


    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...03.25.008078v1
    Last edited by Philjames; 12-30-2020 at 07:52 PM.

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    How much did outsiders affect the makeup of the ancient Egyptian population?

    Back in 2017 when the Abusir mummy results came out people were debating how much of those DNA results were reflecting the different outside groups who had ruled ancient Egypt?

    So where can I read any research that deals with how much outside groups affected ancient Egypt's population over it's history?

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    Some research to look out for.

    Are modern Egyptians related to ancient Egyptians? The country’s largest-ever research project is seeking an answer to this mystery.

    https://www.scidev.net/global/news/u...n-dna-secrets/
    Last edited by Motion; 01-24-2021 at 05:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motion View Post
    How much did outsiders affect the makeup of the ancient Egyptian population?

    Back in 2017 when the Abusir mummy results came out people were debating how much of those DNA results were reflecting the different outside groups who had ruled ancient Egypt?

    So where can I read any research that deals with how much outside groups affected ancient Egypt's population over it's history?
    There is no evidence of replacement in Egypt as far as we know and it can't be a coincidence if these abusir results are similar to the modern ones

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabaon View Post
    There is no evidence of replacement in Egypt as far as we know and it can't be a coincidence if these abusir results are similar to the modern ones
    I think it's more that people want to see if pre-Hyksos mummies (old kingdom and middle kingdom)will match the Abusir results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motion View Post
    I think it's more that people want to see if pre-Hyksos mummies (old kingdom and middle kingdom)will match the Abusir results.
    Hyksos themselves were not foreigners : https://dailynewsegypt.com/2020/07/1...nvaders-study/


    And like I implied, Abusir samples probably weren't foreigners at all :

    Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated43,55, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society55. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society55.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...-Roman_periods


    The only event that could have impacted egypt would be the trans-saharan slave trade which brought millions of black slaves in the Arab World :

    By comparing ancient individuals from Abusir el-Meleq with modern Egyptian reference populations, we found an influx of sub-Saharan African ancestry after the Roman Period, which corroborates the findings by Henn and colleagues16. Further investigation would be needed to link this influx to particular historic processes. Possible causal factors include increased mobility down the Nile and increased long-distance commerce between sub-Saharan Africa and Egypt49. Trans-Saharan slave trade may have been particularly important as it moved between 6 and 7 million sub-Saharan slaves to Northern Africa over a span of some 1,250 years, reaching its high point in the nineteenth century
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncom...0Wn4whlK9qQbu4

    In contrast to the Middle Eastern influence, studies have reported only limited contribution of sub-Saharan paternal lineages to the North African gene pool [39,40]. Previous analyzes of mtDNA lineages in North African populations suggest significant Eurasian origins [41–43] with lineages dating back to Paleolithic times [41] and with recent gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa linked to slave trade [44].
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3842387/


    We also find significant signatures of sub-Saharan African ancestry that vary substantially among populations. These sub-Saharan ancestries appear to be a recent introduction into North African populations, dating to about 1,200 years ago in southern Morocco and about 750 years ago into Egypt, possibly reflecting the patterns of the trans-Saharan slave trade that occurred during this period.
    https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1002397

    Modern Egyptians share this profile but in addition show a marked increase of African mtDNA lineages L0–L4 up to 20% (consistent with nuclear estimates of 80% non-African ancestry reported in Pagani et al.17). Genetic continuity between ancient and modern Egyptians cannot be ruled out by our formal test despite this sub-Saharan African influx, while continuity with modern
    Ethiopians, who carry 60% African L lineages, is not supported (Supplementary Data 5).
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...-Roman_periods


    When the mummy’s mtDNA sequence is viewed in the context of modern mtDNA diversity, however, the observed U5 lineage could potentially reflect interactions between Egypt and the Near East that date as far back as the Predynastic and Early Dynastic periods [85]. Trade between Egypt and the Near East is evidenced by, among other things, ceramic imports to Egypt [86]. In addition, dwellings similar to those found in Palestine suggest some immigration to Egypt from more arid Near Eastern areas from the late Predynastic to the Old Kingdom [85,87]. Both trade and immigration between Egypt and the Near East continued to increase over time. Demand in Egypt for cedar of Lebanon wood (a wood available and harvested in Lebanon and Syria during the MK) led to the further establishment of trade routes between Egypt and the Levant [85,86]. It is interesting, and perhaps not coincidental, that the individual with the mtDNA sequence most similar to Djehutynakht comes from a Lebanese individual
    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/htm

    On top of this historical information offering an explanation for the observed mtDNA data are now additional, recently published, mtGenomes from Africa, and Egypt in particular. MtDNA haplotypes recently obtained from ancient human remains from sub-Saharan Africa belong only to haplogroup L subgroups [65,88]. However, nearly all of the remains excavated in the Northern part of the continent belong to Eurasian mtDNA lineages [63,67,74,89,90]. In fact, of the 114 mtDNA genomes now available from northern African ancient human remains, only one belongs to an African lineage (L3 observed in a skeleton from Abusir el-Meleq [74]). The deep presence of Eurasian mtDNA lineages
    in Northern Africa has, therefore, been clearly established with these recent reports and offers further support for the authenticity of the Eurasian mtDNA sequence observed in the Djehutynakht mummy
    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/htm

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