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Thread: Using Greek-related populations to model modern Turks: Feasibility?

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    babylonian jews did indeed settle in anatolia
    Antiochus III (the Great) transported 2,000 Jewish families from Mesopotamia and Babylonia to "the fortresses and most important places" of Phrygia and Lydia

    Antiochos epistola Zeuxis
     


    relooking the roman paper
    samples like R67, R68 or R1551 could well have been FigS15 babylonian jews and since the entire cline extends to them FigS18 babylonian jews (via their anatolia) could have been far more prominent than the levantine jews
    Thank you Alex.Do you know if they also settled in the area of Pontus/Northeast Anatolia?

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Thank you Alex.Do you know if they also settled in the area of Pontus/Northeast Anatolia?
    am not aware of it but sources can def. exist on it
    yet since pontus was always its own kingdom an outside influx whole settlements should be more limited (i guess)
    Geno2.0 51SEURO 19WCEURO 13SCANDINAVIA 5ASIAMINOR 4EEURO 4GB/IRELAND 3ARABIA myOrigins 26ITA.PENINSULA 13GREECE&BALKANS 12SARDINIA 18GREATBRITAIN 14IRELAND 10CEN.EUROPE 8SCANDINAVIA DNA.Land 49NWEURO 27SEURO 13MED.ISLANDER 11SARDINIAN myHeritage 51.8NWEURO 33.2ITALIAN 7.9GREEK/S.ITALY 7.1BALKAN gencove 29NITALY 19EMED 15NBRITISLES 12SWEURO 10NCEURO 9SCANDINAVIA 6NEEURO GenePlaza 54.4NWEURO 37.6GREEK/ALBANIAN 5.6WASIAN 2.4SWASIA LivingDNA 70.7SGERMANIC 16.3TUSCANY 9.2N.ITALY 3.8SARDINIA

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  4. #243
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    What about Greek_Kos?

  5. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruhman View Post
    What about Greek_Kos?
    What about it?

  6. #245
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    I have the results of a Western Pontic Greek.For those who are interested to check.Also i would like to know the opinion of some of the Turkish members.He is mostly from Ordu and Amasya.I think he has some 'Turkoman-Central Asian' admixture on his autosomal.

    K13 Updated


    Distance to: western Pontus
    5.14878626 Greek_Cappadocian
    8.51528038 Greek_Trabzon
    9.35092509 Turkish_mixed
    9.60030729 Turk_Turkey_average
    9.74621978 Armenian_West
    9.87576832 Turk_South_East
    9.95125620 Turk_Central_East
    10.39933171 Greek_Caucasus
    10.52790577 Turk_East
    10.57400586 Armenian
    11.41210761 Assyrian_West
    11.44872482 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
    11.61502045 Nusayri
    11.64045532 Assyrian_North
    11.68668901 Georgian_Jewish
    11.77466348 Armenian_East
    11.78606805 Turk_Central_West
    11.82074025 Assyrian_South
    11.96170556 Turk_Anatolia
    12.05159740 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
    12.20399934 Turk_East_Black_Sea
    12.98211077 Greek_Chios
    13.20445379 Turk_South
    13.40946308 Turkmen_Iraq
    13.49864067 Lebanese_Muslim

    K15 Updated

    Distance to: western Pontus
    8.28802148 Greek_Trabzon
    8.36285238 Armenian_West
    9.51539279 Turkish_Kayseri
    10.21888448 Turkish_Anatolia
    10.23647889 Armenian_East
    11.29936724 Turkish_Adana
    11.30847912 Georgian_Jew
    11.69202292 Assyrian
    12.05181729 Turkish_East
    13.58482609 Turkish_Trabzon
    14.01079941 Azerbaijani
    14.50578850 Azerbaijani_Iran
    14.77174330 Lebanese_Muslim
    15.55286147 Turkish_Aydin
    16.53344792 Kurd
    16.68047062 Georgian_Laz
    16.87968305 Iranian_Lur
    17.39182854 Kurdish_Jew
    17.87111916 Syrian
    17.87434754 Cypriot
    18.11578041 Greek_Crete
    18.39713293 Turk_Meskhetian
    19.23029641 Lebanese_Christian
    19.29970725 Turkish_Balikesir
    19.77166913 Iranian_Persian


    K13 Eurogenes:

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 34.49
    2 West_Asian 30.78
    3 West_Med 16.57
    4 Baltic 6.51
    5 North_Atlantic 6.45
    6 Red_Sea 4.06
    7 Siberian 1.13

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Johnny ola; 03-04-2021 at 12:48 AM.

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  8. #246
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    I checkes other calculators i think his Eastern Eurasian is quite low snd could be just noise. However his autosomal results looks like Central-West Anatolian Greek unlike other Ordu Greek i’ve seen that basically looks like Trabzon Greeks. So i guess we can say Ordu Greeks were heteregonious due to migrations from different parts of the country?

  9. #247
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    mtDNA (P)
    T2b

    Cappadocian Kingdom Thracian Odrysian Kingdom Greek Macedonia Byzantine Empire Ottoman Empire Turkey
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    I have the results of a Western Pontic Greek.For those who are interested to check.Also i would like to know the opinion of some of the Turkish members.He is mostly from Ordu and Amasya.I think he has some 'Turkoman-Central Asian' admixture on his autosomal.

    K13 Updated


    Distance to: western Pontus
    5.14878626 Greek_Cappadocian
    8.51528038 Greek_Trabzon
    9.35092509 Turkish_mixed
    9.60030729 Turk_Turkey_average
    9.74621978 Armenian_West
    9.87576832 Turk_South_East
    9.95125620 Turk_Central_East
    10.39933171 Greek_Caucasus
    10.52790577 Turk_East
    10.57400586 Armenian
    11.41210761 Assyrian_West
    11.44872482 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
    11.61502045 Nusayri
    11.64045532 Assyrian_North
    11.68668901 Georgian_Jewish
    11.77466348 Armenian_East
    11.78606805 Turk_Central_West
    11.82074025 Assyrian_South
    11.96170556 Turk_Anatolia
    12.05159740 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
    12.20399934 Turk_East_Black_Sea
    12.98211077 Greek_Chios
    13.20445379 Turk_South
    13.40946308 Turkmen_Iraq
    13.49864067 Lebanese_Muslim

    K15 Updated

    Distance to: western Pontus
    8.28802148 Greek_Trabzon
    8.36285238 Armenian_West
    9.51539279 Turkish_Kayseri
    10.21888448 Turkish_Anatolia
    10.23647889 Armenian_East
    11.29936724 Turkish_Adana
    11.30847912 Georgian_Jew
    11.69202292 Assyrian
    12.05181729 Turkish_East
    13.58482609 Turkish_Trabzon
    14.01079941 Azerbaijani
    14.50578850 Azerbaijani_Iran
    14.77174330 Lebanese_Muslim
    15.55286147 Turkish_Aydin
    16.53344792 Kurd
    16.68047062 Georgian_Laz
    16.87968305 Iranian_Lur
    17.39182854 Kurdish_Jew
    17.87111916 Syrian
    17.87434754 Cypriot
    18.11578041 Greek_Crete
    18.39713293 Turk_Meskhetian
    19.23029641 Lebanese_Christian
    19.29970725 Turkish_Balikesir
    19.77166913 Iranian_Persian


    K13 Eurogenes:

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 34.49
    2 West_Asian 30.78
    3 West_Med 16.57
    4 Baltic 6.51
    5 North_Atlantic 6.45
    6 Red_Sea 4.06
    7 Siberian 1.13

    Any thoughts?
    He does not have East Eurasian beyond noise and thus any detectable Turkic admixture based on his various calculator results. For instance, here are his MDLP K16 results:

    Amerindian -
    Ancestor -
    Steppe 13.2 Pct
    Indian 2.55 Pct
    Arctic 0.06 Pct
    Australian -
    Caucasian 54.36 Pct
    EastAfrican -
    NorthEastEuropean 3.9 Pct
    NearEast 6.71 Pct
    Neolithic 17.79 Pct
    NorthAfrican 1.06 Pct
    Oceanic -
    Siberian 0.37 Pct
    SouthEastAsian -
    Subsaharian -

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Armenian (Armenia) 6.27
    2 Armenian (Lebanon) 6.74
    3 Turk (Kayseri) 6.88
    4 Armenian (Erzrum) 7.01
    5 Armenian (Vanatur_Hrazdan) 7.6
    6 Armenian (Vardnis) 8.06
    7 Armenian (Yerevan) 8.32
    8 Georgian (Laz) 8.35
    9 Armenian (Chambarak) 8.51
    10 Turk (Adana) 8.83
    11 Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) 8.88
    12 Armenian (Yegvard) 8.95
    13 Armenian (Dprabak) 8.95
    14 Greek (Azov) 8.99
    15 Cypriot (Cyprus) 9.02
    16 Assyrian (Armenia) 9.06
    17 Armenian (Martuni) 9.08
    18 Adjar (Adjaria) 9.27
    19 Armenian (Armenia) 9.4
    20 Turk (Istanbul) 9.57

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 77.2% Armenian (Armenia) + 22.8% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.49
    2 69.6% Armenian (Armenia) + 30.4% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.67
    3 76.8% Armenian (Armenia) + 23.2% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.84
    4 56.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 43.3% Greek (Greece) @ 2.86
    5 72.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 27.5% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.94
    6 79.8% Armenian (Armenia) + 20.2% Spanish (Baleares) @ 2.96
    7 84.8% Armenian (Armenia) + 15.2% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.98
    8 82.8% Armenian (Armenia) + 17.2% Spanish (Aragon) @ 2.98
    9 69.2% Armenian (Armenia) + 30.8% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 3.03
    10 69.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 30.7% Albanian (Albania) @ 3.03
    11 68.7% Armenian (Armenia) + 31.3% Greek (Greece) @ 3.04
    12 80.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 19.7% Spanish (Spain) @ 3.12
    13 76.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 23.6% Corsican (Corsica) @ 3.13
    14 72% Armenian (Armenia) + 28% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 3.15
    15 60.9% Georgian (Laz) + 39.1% Greek (Greece) @ 3.17
    16 61.8% Turk (Trabzon) + 38.2% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 3.18
    17 86.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 13.5% Basque (France) @ 3.2
    18 81.5% Armenian (Armenia) + 18.5% French (France) @ 3.24
    19 75.9% Armenian (Armenia) + 24.1% Corsican (Corsica) @ 3.24
    20 67.1% Armenian (Armenia) + 32.9% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 3.34

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Armenian_Armenia @ 7.131273
    2 Turk_Kayseri @ 7.407294
    3 Armenian_Lebanon @ 7.465335
    4 Armenian_Erzrum @ 7.926895
    5 Armenian_Vanatur_Hrazdan @ 8.528985
    6 Armenian_Vardnis @ 8.819259
    7 Georgian_Laz @ 9.273756
    8 Armenian_Yerevan @ 9.339188
    9 Armenian_Chambarak @ 9.640309
    10 Turk_Adana @ 9.876884
    11 Georgian_Abkhazia_Abkhazia @ 9.929802
    12 Assyrian_Armenia @ 10.001896
    13 Cypriot_Cyprus @ 10.012949
    14 Armenian_Yegvard @ 10.110293
    15 Armenian_Dprabak @ 10.117280
    16 Greek_Azov @ 10.189158
    17 Armenian_Martuni @ 10.238786
    18 Adjar_Adjaria @ 10.244320
    19 Armenian_Armenia @ 10.360682
    20 Turk_Istanbul @ 10.731075

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Armenian_Armenia +50% Greek_Greece @ 3.158719


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Armenian_Armenia +25% Italian_Bergamo +25% Turk_Trabzon @ 1.901354


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
    1 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Italian_Bergamo + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.901354
    2 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Italian_Tuscany + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.953296
    3 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Corsican_Corsica + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.111721
    4 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Thessaloniki @ 2.275078
    5 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Italian_Tuscany @ 2.307928
    6 Albanian_Albania + Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi @ 2.335768
    7 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Italian_Bergamo + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.365024
    8 Armenian_Armenia + Georgian_Laz + Italian_Tuscany + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.366838
    9 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Greece @ 2.368900
    10 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Italian_NorthIitaly + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.375995
    11 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Megrelia + Greek_Athens @ 2.417208
    12 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Italian_Tuscany + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.421828
    13 Armenian_Vardnis + Armenian_Armenia + Italian_Tuscany + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.428800
    14 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Kosovar_Kosovo @ 2.429213
    15 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Italian_Tuscany @ 2.459243
    16 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Greece @ 2.487715
    17 Armenian_Armenia + Armenian_Armenia + Corsican_Corsica + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.496019
    18 Armenian_Armenia + Jew_Georgia + Italian_Bergamo + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.544198
    19 Armenian_Armenia + Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Thessaloniki @ 2.555608
    20 Cypriot_Cyprus + Georgian_Megrelia + Italian_Abruzzo + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.566007

    He is genetically between Cappadocian Greeks and Eastern Pontic Greeks. In certain GEDmatch calculators Anatolian Turks show up as the first population in single population distances to Greek individuals with a genetics between the Cappadocian Greek and East Pontic Greek averages despite those Greek individuals showing no East Eurasian and thus Turkic mix. You can see that in Cappadocian Greeks with more than average steppe and/or less than than average Anatolia N too for instance. This is because of the similar percentages with Anatolian Turks in West Eurasian components, nothing to do with any Turkic mix. Do not forget that Anatolian Turks themselves are largely of Anatolian Greek ancestry.
    Hidden Content

    Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey
    mtDNA: X2e2a3; Drama, Greece
    Maternal Y-DNA: R1a>Y40>YP294>BY90442; Razgrad, Bulgaria
    Father's mtDNA: T2b; Nigde, Turkey
    Paternal grandfather's mtDNA: H2a1; Nigde, Turkey
    Maternal grandfather's mtDNA: H5o; Razgrad, Bulgaria
    Father's maternal Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey

    Ālim-i Rūm (Scholar of Hidden Content )

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  11. #248
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    I have an another Ordu Greek results. I will post them thought.

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  13. #249
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    Τhese results are fully Ordu.He is waiting for G25.



    Ηis K13 eurogenes.

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 38.54
    2 West_Asian 34.86
    3 West_Med 14.50
    4 Red_Sea 6.34
    5 North_Atlantic 2.93
    6 South_Asian 2.26


    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Assyrian @ 5.018348
    2 Armenian @ 5.989465
    3 Georgian_Jewish @ 6.179441
    4 Kurdish_Jewish @ 8.547978
    5 Iranian_Jewish @ 9.853659
    6 Lebanese_Muslim @ 13.053451
    7 Turkish @ 13.084300
    8 Azeri @ 14.969471
    9 Kurdish @ 14.991577
    10 Syrian @ 15.700521
    11 Cyprian @ 16.386168
    12 Iranian @ 16.968300
    13 Lebanese_Christian @ 17.811255
    14 Lebanese_Druze @ 17.877888
    15 Samaritan @ 19.715050
    16 Jordanian @ 20.447420
    17 Palestinian @ 22.249363
    18 Georgian @ 25.251038
    19 Tunisian_Jewish @ 25.584490
    20 Sephardic_Jewish @ 26.144701


    K13 updated

    Distance to: Ordu
    3.55859523 Armenian_West
    4.48334696 Assyrian_West
    4.66681905 Assyrian_North
    4.97546983 Assyrian_South
    5.08265679 Greek_Trabzon
    5.26993359 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
    5.53280218 Greek_Caucasus
    5.58381590 Armenian
    6.18741465 Georgian_Jewish
    7.73289726 Armenian_East
    8.25084238 Mandean
    8.54746161 Kurdish_Jewish
    8.96732959 Turk_East_Black_Sea
    9.19988043 Iraqi_Jew
    10.21181668 Greek_Cappadocian
    11.01366878 Turkmen_Iraq
    11.20457050 Turk_South_East
    11.52308119 Turk_East
    11.72002986 Nusayri
    12.70647079 Iraqi_Baghdad
    13.03417048 Laz
    13.05470413 Lebanese_Muslim
    13.08857517 Turkish_mixed
    13.10882527 Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
    13.46212836 Turk_Turkey_average


    Target: pavlos
    Distance: 2.0552% / 2.05518117 | ADC: 0.5x RC
    53.8 Assyrian_West
    46.2 Greek_Trabzon

    k15 updated

    5.43677294 Armenian_West
    6.41611253 Greek_Trabzon
    7.30693506 Armenian_East
    7.44020833 Georgian_Jew
    8.03652910 Assyrian
    9.65379200 Turkish_East
    10.02673925 Turkish_Trabzon
    11.93400603 Turkish_Kayseri
    12.47576050 Turkish_Anatolia
    13.69990876 Kurd
    13.79152276 Kurdish_Jew
    13.84032153 Azerbaijani
    13.92243154 Georgian_Laz
    14.25611097 Iranian_Lur
    14.36706999 Turkish_Adana
    14.75351145 Azerbaijani_Iran
    14.87923385 Lebanese_Muslim
    16.67532608 Turk_Meskhetian
    16.69336695 Iranian_Jew
    17.49756840 Iranian_Mazandarani
    18.20973641 Lebanese_Christian
    18.35799281 Syrian
    18.46898211 Iranian_Persian
    19.87202808 Cypriot
    21.42172029 Turkish_Aydin


    K15

    Target: pavlos
    Distance: 4.1288% / 4.12876024 | ADC: 0.5x RC
    53.1 Assyrian
    31.5 Turkish_Trabzon
    8.8 Greek_Trabzon
    6.6 Turkish_East

    Distance: 2.6071% / 2.60707331 | ADC: 0.5x RC
    76.9 Turkish_Trabzon
    15.3 Iraqi_Jew
    7.8 Assyrian

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  15. #250
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    I apologize if I am making some sort of a tangent, but... I wonder:

    Who are these "Cappadocian/Anatolian Greeks" to begin with? Discussions about Turkish origins generally focus on Turkmen vs. Greeks (as well as Armenians, Kurds, Balkan people, etc.), however I rarely hear about the origins of the aformentioned groups themselves. Are they mainly the descendants of migrants from across the Aegean, Hellenized Anatolian peoples (such as Luwians and Hittites), a mix of both, or something else entirely?

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