Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Is my clade Lombard?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    56
    Ethnicity
    Polish, Greek
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z36>R-FT330613

    United States of America Poland Greece Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia

    Is my clade Lombard?

    Hello everyone,

    I recently put my Big Y test on YFull and had my results analyzed finally. I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy, and his number begins with an "HG" which I have heard is indicative of him being a part of a study. There is another individual possibly from the same study, in Z36. Could this person at R-FT330613 be from a study of Lombards and what does that say about me exactly? My paternal family identifies as Greek and originally comes from the outskirts of what is now Istanbul, Turkey. They have mostly a Balkan profile autosomally, but we do have some Baltic/Italian/Scandinavian results. (trace amount) I have always assumed we have an Italo-Celtic haplogroup from either Balkan or Anatolian Celts, so this would be a new development for me. Thanks for any help.

    By the way on YFULL it says that me and the individual from Bergamo share 34 SNPs, and 18 assumed shared SNPs.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Marko47 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (12-30-2020),  Cascio (12-30-2020),  dosas (12-30-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    899
    Sex
    Location
    Spain
    Ethnicity
    Hispano-American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-BY724*
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c

    Venezuela Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko47 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I recently put my Big Y test on YFull and had my results analyzed finally. I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy, and his number begins with an "HG" which I have heard is indicative of him being a part of a study. There is another individual possibly from the same study, in Z36. Could this person at R-FT330613 be from a study of Lombards and what does that say about me exactly? My paternal family identifies as Greek and originally comes from the outskirts of what is now Istanbul, Turkey. They have mostly a Balkan profile autosomally, but we do have some Baltic/Italian/Scandinavian results. (trace amount) I have always assumed we have an Italo-Celtic haplogroup from either Balkan or Anatolian Celts, so this would be a new development for me. Thanks for any help.

    By the way on YFULL it says that me and the individual from Bergamo share 34 SNPs, and 18 assumed shared SNPs.
    R-Z36 is more related with previous italic migrations than to lombards. If you mean lombard from actual Lombardy region, not sure.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to alejandromb92 For This Useful Post:

     Marko47 (12-30-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,178
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Ethnicity
    NW Tuscan/Italian
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+Z36+
    mtDNA (M)
    U6a7a

    Scotland Italy Tuscany
    R-Z36 is common in Lombardy, notably around Bergamo and Brescia, but it is far older in northern Italy (maybe 1500 years or more older) than the Langobard invasion and may go back to Celtic invasions, both Lepontic and later Cisalpine Gallic.
    Last edited by Cascio; 12-30-2020 at 09:56 PM.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Cascio For This Useful Post:

     Marko47 (12-30-2020)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,471
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Palatinate Ireland Leinster Sweden Finns
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko47 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I recently put my Big Y test on YFull and had my results analyzed finally. I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy, and his number begins with an "HG" which I have heard is indicative of him being a part of a study. There is another individual possibly from the same study, in Z36. Could this person at R-FT330613 be from a study of Lombards and what does that say about me exactly? My paternal family identifies as Greek and originally comes from the outskirts of what is now Istanbul, Turkey. They have mostly a Balkan profile autosomally, but we do have some Baltic/Italian/Scandinavian results. (trace amount) I have always assumed we have an Italo-Celtic haplogroup from either Balkan or Anatolian Celts, so this would be a new development for me. Thanks for any help.

    By the way on YFULL it says that me and the individual from Bergamo share 34 SNPs, and 18 assumed shared SNPs.
    Just a guess, but your paternal line could have been in present day Italy and moved to Constantinople during the Roman Era. Anything is possible but I haven’t seen much of a historical connection between the Lombards and Constantintiople.

    Except for this

    After being used as a mercenary army by the Byzantine empire, the Lombards began to invade northern Italy.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 12-30-2020 at 10:03 PM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Marko47 (12-30-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    56
    Ethnicity
    Polish, Greek
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z36>R-FT330613

    United States of America Poland Greece Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia
    This is what I have read previously about Z36: During the Iron Age, the expansion of the La Tène culture from Switzerland is associated with the diffusion of the Z36 branch, which would generate the Belgae around modern Belgium and in the Rhineland, the Gauls in France, and the Cisalpine Celts in Italy.

    Does it make more sense that I match with this person in the study who has a Cisalpine Celtic background (let's say) while my background would be similar if it came from the Balkan/Anatolian Galatians who I have read were thought to have been in part Belgae? (or Gauls) I have also read that the Boii were active in Northern Italy and also headed East to the Balkans during the Celtic invasions of the Balkans.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Marko47 For This Useful Post:

     Cascio (12-30-2020)

  11. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,178
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Ethnicity
    NW Tuscan/Italian
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+Z36+
    mtDNA (M)
    U6a7a

    Scotland Italy Tuscany
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko47 View Post
    This is what I have read previously about Z36: During the Iron Age, the expansion of the La Tène culture from Switzerland is associated with the diffusion of the Z36 branch, which would generate the Belgae around modern Belgium and in the Rhineland, the Gauls in France, and the Cisalpine Celts in Italy.
    Z36 is common today in Wallonia and Northern italy but only common in parts of eastern France closest to Switzerland which may be the ultimate source of R-Z36.

    R-DF27 and R-L21 are more common in modern France than R-Z36.
    Last edited by Cascio; 12-30-2020 at 10:36 PM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Cascio For This Useful Post:

     Marko47 (12-30-2020)

  13. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,471
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Palatinate Ireland Leinster Sweden Finns
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko47 View Post
    This is what I have read previously about Z36: During the Iron Age, the expansion of the La Tène culture from Switzerland is associated with the diffusion of the Z36 branch, which would generate the Belgae around modern Belgium and in the Rhineland, the Gauls in France, and the Cisalpine Celts in Italy.

    Does it make more sense that I match with this person in the study who has a Cisalpine Celtic background (let's say) while my background would be similar if it came from the Balkan/Anatolian Galatians who I have read were thought to have been in part Belgae? (or Gauls) I have also read that the Boii were active in Northern Italy and also headed East to the Balkans during the Celtic invasions of the Balkans.
    It’s a common predicament for many of us. There’s just so many possibilities. Hopefully, future ancient/Medieval dna testing can help us reduce the likely possibilities.

    Testing of Viking samples (VK40) has had the opposite effect on my own thinking, forcing me to add Viking arrivals into Britain as a realistic possibility for my own line. Prior to VK40, I had given little thought to a Viking origin for my paternal line.

    My father’s closest paternal match traces his paternal line back to Westmorland, England...an area with known Norse inhabitants.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 12-30-2020 at 10:37 PM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Marko47 (12-30-2020)

  15. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    812
    Sex
    Location
    Germany
    Ethnicity
    European
    Nationality
    German
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-CTS4333 (U152/Z36)
    mtDNA (M)
    H
    Y-DNA (M)
    I1-L22
    mtDNA (P)
    U5a1b2

    Germany Denmark Czech Republic Switzerland Austria European Union
    I'm R-CTS4333 and the only matches with this SNP I have are from Puerto Rico (also HG project) and an adopted person with unknown ancestry. Without any additional information these matches do not help at all. At least I'm not alone. They may think they are of German origin because of my latest proven ancestor in Thuringia (probably an ancestor moved there in mid 16th century from Alsace).
    Known ancestry: 92.6% German (66.8% North German), 4.7% Danish, 1.8% Czech, 0.8% Austrian, 0.1% Swiss.
    EUROGENES K13: N German, N Dutch, DNK, SWE, NOR. Ancestry: Germanic 99%, Baltic 1%. LM: NOR, DNK, NLD, N-DEU, SWE.
    23andMe: NW Europe 82.5% (French/German 50.2%, Scandinavian 9.1%, British/Irish 3.2%), East Europe 11.5%, South Europe 1.5%. DNAL: NW Euro 81%, NE Euro 11%, Med 6.5%
    Y-DNA: R1b/U152/Z36/CTS4333, Thuringia 1634, probably Alsace 1552, -- mt-DNA: H

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to CelticGerman For This Useful Post:

     Marko47 (12-30-2020)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    56
    Ethnicity
    Polish, Greek
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z36>R-FT330613

    United States of America Poland Greece Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia
    Both you and the Puerto Rican match are on my match list about 5 slots down. I noticed that match too with the HG beginning from Puerto Rico.

  18. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    812
    Sex
    Location
    Germany
    Ethnicity
    European
    Nationality
    German
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-CTS4333 (U152/Z36)
    mtDNA (M)
    H
    Y-DNA (M)
    I1-L22
    mtDNA (P)
    U5a1b2

    Germany Denmark Czech Republic Switzerland Austria European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko47 View Post
    Both you and the Puerto Rican match are on my match list about 5 slots down. I noticed that match too with the HG beginning from Puerto Rico.
    On Wikipedia you can find an article concerning German immigration to Puerto Rico. This might be the explanation. I found my surname there with different spelling (probably the original version which is frequent in France and with origin in Luxembourg). Nevertheless, it's not enough information for certitude.
    Known ancestry: 92.6% German (66.8% North German), 4.7% Danish, 1.8% Czech, 0.8% Austrian, 0.1% Swiss.
    EUROGENES K13: N German, N Dutch, DNK, SWE, NOR. Ancestry: Germanic 99%, Baltic 1%. LM: NOR, DNK, NLD, N-DEU, SWE.
    23andMe: NW Europe 82.5% (French/German 50.2%, Scandinavian 9.1%, British/Irish 3.2%), East Europe 11.5%, South Europe 1.5%. DNAL: NW Euro 81%, NE Euro 11%, Med 6.5%
    Y-DNA: R1b/U152/Z36/CTS4333, Thuringia 1634, probably Alsace 1552, -- mt-DNA: H

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-06-2021, 09:10 PM
  2. What was the sub-clade R1a that the Burgundians took away?
    By The_Lyonnist in forum R1a General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-02-2021, 07:58 PM
  3. U5b2b clade
    By Baltimore1937 in forum U
    Replies: 107
    Last Post: 03-10-2021, 11:58 PM
  4. E-M293 clade
    By Rwaka in forum E1b-M215
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 07-11-2020, 09:20 AM
  5. I1-Mav11 A new clade; are you in it?
    By scottraveler in forum I1-M253
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-06-2015, 04:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •