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Thread: Many Romani 23andMe Results

  1. #1
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    Many Romani 23andMe Results

    While most of my Romani matches are on MyHeritage (where my largest genetic cluster is solely Romani), I do have a decent amount on 23andMe as well. Fascinatingly for both, not all are Greek-Roma (though they are my closest Romani matches, unsurprisingly). In fact, they are found everywhere, basically. It seems the Romani 'core' is strong. (Though, I don't know how that works exactly). However, it is important to note that most of my matches are adopted, therefore, their surnames and/or specific origins and labels may be misleading. It is very interesting to see how varied the results can be, even within the same country.

    Here are some that I have collected:

    Spain
     



    Russia
     



    Ukraine
     


    Albania
     


    Italy
     



    Romania
     



    ----------





    Bulgaria
     



    ----------




    Slovakia
     


    ----------


     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  3. #2
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    Greece
     



    ----------




    ----------




    Unknown Origin
     



    ----------



    ----------


     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  5. #3
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    All are at least quarter European...What are the haplogroups? I guess H-M82 is present but I wonder about other haplogroups reported (including mtDNA).
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3 226>YP5224
    N1c-L1026>CTS10760>VL29>Z4908>L550>L1025>M2783>Z17902> L591>Y5582
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP1019>YP1020*
    R1b-P312>U152>L2>DF103

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    I'm curious if any South Asian-specific R1a is found among Romani populations. Also just how close we are to finding their 'parent' South Asian populations. Razib Khan's old post indicated a close relationship to the Meghwal: https://www.discovermagazine.com/the...d-definitively
    Last edited by subzero85; 01-08-2021 at 09:18 PM.

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artmar View Post
    What are the haplogroups? I guess H-M82 is present but I wonder about other haplogroups reported (including mtDNA).
    Spain (male) - K1a4a1 and H-M52
    Russia (male) - M5a1 and I-M423
    Ukraine (female) - X2d
    Albania (female) - N1b1 and E-V13
    Italy (female) - M5a1b
    Romania 1 (female) - H1
    Romania 2 (male) - M5a1b and H-M52
    Bulgaria 1 (female) - M5a1 and I-Z140
    Bulgaria 2 (female) - H2a3
    Slovakia 1 (male) - I1a1 and E-V13
    Slovakia 2 (female) - M5a1b
    Greece 1 (male) - J1c1 and H-M52
    Greece 2 (male) - H and J-M205
    Greece 3 (female) - M18
    Unknown 1 (male) - J1 and G-L166
    Unknown 2 (male) - N1b1 and J-M67
    Unknown 3 (male) - T2e and I-Z140
     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    I'm curious if any South Asian-specific R1a is found among Romani populations. Also just how close we are to finding their 'parent' South Asian populations. Razib Khan's old post indicated a close relationship to the Meghwal: https://www.discovermagazine.com/the...d-definitively
    Underhill aet al. (2014) reports that R1a (The Indo-Iranian variety of R1a R-M780) makes up more than 30% of Hungarian and Croatian Roma.

    The South Asian parent population of the Roma has yet to be determined. The Meghwal are as close or distant as Kashmiri Pandits to the Roma. What I mean is that we need more data to find the source population or caste.

    homeland.png

    As far as our own Romani ancestry is concerned my father has got a 23andMe Pashtun DNA match and recently on FTDNA a Punjabi Jatt sample popped up as a match with the surname Bhandal. He shares 40cm with that Jatt sample the longest segment being 8cm long.

    I would love to see genetic data from the Dooma in Gilgit-Baltistan and compare it with the Roma:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domaaki_language

    The Dooma seem to have arrived to their actual home from Punjab and may/may not be related to the Roma.
    Last edited by Shamash; 01-12-2021 at 11:46 AM.

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markos View Post
    Spain (male) - K1a4a1 and H-M52
    Russia (male) - M5a1 and I-M423
    Ukraine (female) - X2d
    Albania (female) - N1b1 and E-V13
    Italy (female) - M5a1b
    Romania 1 (female) - H1
    Romania 2 (male) - M5a1b and H-M52
    Bulgaria 1 (female) - M5a1 and I-Z140
    Bulgaria 2 (female) - H2a3
    Slovakia 1 (male) - I1a1 and E-V13
    Slovakia 2 (female) - M5a1b
    Greece 1 (male) - J1c1 and H-M52
    Greece 2 (male) - H and J-M205
    Greece 3 (female) - M18
    Unknown 1 (male) - J1 and G-L166
    Unknown 2 (male) - N1b1 and J-M67
    Unknown 3 (male) - T2e and I-Z140
    Interesting stuff Markos thank you for sharing. Do you have any more Romani matches at either MyHeritage or 23andme that belong to either J-M67 or J-M92 subclades?

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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Interesting stuff Markos thank you for sharing. Do you have any more Romani matches at either MyHeritage or 23andme that belong to either J-M67 or J-M92 subclades?
    I can't see my matches' YDNA on MyHeritage but I think those listed above are the only ones of my Romani matches on 23andMe to belong to either J-M67 or J-M92 from what I can see.
     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamash View Post
    Underhill aet al. (2014) reports that R1a (The Indo-Iranian variety of R1a R-M780) makes up more than 30% of Hungarian and Croatian Roma.

    The South Asian parent population of the Roma has yet to be determined. The Meghwal are as close or distant as Kashmiri Pandits to the Roma. What I mean is that we need more data to find the source population or caste.

    homeland.png

    As far as our own Romani ancestry is concerned my father has got a 23andMe Pashtun DNA match and recently on FTDNA a Punjabi Jatt sample popped up as a match with the surname Bhandal. He shares 40cm with that Jatt sample the longest segment being 8cm long.

    I would love to see genetic data from the Dooma in Gilgit-Baltistan and compare it with the Roma:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domaaki_language

    The Dooma seem to have arrived to their actual home from Punjab and may/may not be related to the Roma.
    Your Jatt match or Pashtun match might be on the segments that are not necessarily Romani ones. The Jatt and Pashtun some of them have significant Steppe which might be the ones acquired in Balkans or on the way
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Your Jatt match or Pashtun match might be on the segments that are not necessarily Romani ones. The Jatt and Pashtun some of them have significant Steppe which might be the ones acquired in Balkans or on the way
    You mean that these matches alongside the Iranian and Turkish ones that we have and which exactly mark the Out-of-India-route of the Romani population go back to the third/second millennium BCE instead of 800-1200 years ago? Could you please elaborate? 40cm and 8cm the longest segment going back to common steppe ancestry dating to ca. 4000 years ago?

    And do you have any ideas yourself around the source population/caste of the Roma in Punjab? Well I would like to see some Indian Doma being sampled and being compared...

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