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Thread: Many Romani 23andMe Results

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markos View Post
    For some, yes!

    Albanian - E-V13
    British - H-M52
    British - R-M167
    Spanish - J-M67

    Two others from Britain that I didn't post have the following Y-DNA:

    R-Z209, E-M183
    Cool thanks

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     Markos (02-27-2021)

  3. #82
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    Interesting to see so many Romani results. It turns out as the latest study suggests we derive from three different populations - South and west Asians plus Balkans thatís the original Romani admixture.
    Here are my results from several companies. I have roots in Bulgaria, North Macedonia and Turkey.

    https://imgur.com/zcOvqYL

    https://imgur.com/BQxTGZT

    https://imgur.com/WAoEbkw

    In my opinion 23andme is currently the worst for Romani people considering the high unassigned and broad categories.
    33% Greek_Thessaloniki + 33% IraqiJew + 33% Punjabi @ 4.835

    Modern:


     
    fit: 2.4426,

    Greek_Crete: 51.67
    Gujarati: 38.33
    Iranian_Persian: 7.5
    Lithuanian: 2.5


    Ancient:

     
    fit": 1.7643

    DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o: 32.5
    GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1: 17.5
    ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA: 15
    SLAVIC_Avar_Hungary_Szolad: 11.67
    LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE: 10.83
    ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA: 7.5
    ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA: 5

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  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris000009 View Post
    In my opinion 23andme is currently the worst for Romani people considering the high unassigned and broad categories.
    Awesome, thanks a lot for sharing!

    I would say the large amount of unassigned % is frustrating. Yours is especially high. However, the %'s they do assign seem to be very accurate in comparison to GEDMatch and Vahaduo calculators. They overestimate things on AncestryDNA, and MyHeritage is crap period. (For 'South Asian' anyway).

    That is what I've noticed from the comparisons I have made thus far.
     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  7. #84
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    I thought I'd post these results from Bulgaria, as I've noticed like with Chris above, my Bulgarian-Roma matches always seem to have 'WANA' as their largest component. I wonder why! This is also the highest SA I have seen. From the small sample size I have, Roma from Bulgaria are, on average, the 'least European', genetically. (Romania making a case as well, however).


    Last edited by Markos; 02-28-2021 at 10:31 PM.
     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  9. #85
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    This is the first match I've found through 23andMe to be from Hungary!

    Y-DNA: J-M172


    Last edited by Markos; 02-28-2021 at 10:01 PM.
     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markos View Post
    This is the first match I've found through 23andMe to be from Hungary!

    Y-DNA: J-M172


    Markos, please delete some of your messages so I can PM you
    distance: 1.656775
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.8
    Early Slavic: 24.5
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 12.7
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 10.2
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: 1.7
    MAR_Taforalt: 0.8
    CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA: 0.7
    Yoruba: 0.6

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD View Post
    Markos, please delete some of your messages so I can PM you
    Thanks for letting me know!! Will do now.

    EDIT: Hopefully good to go!
     
    Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 0.8790% / 0.87904303
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.5x RC
    68.0 Greek_Athens
    21.8 Greek_Foca
    8.4 Balkan_Gypsy
    1.8 Greek_Lemnos

    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6988% / 1.69878934
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    65.3 Greek_West
    29.1 Greek_Symi_Island
    5.6 Gypsy_Wallachia


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  14. #88
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    Found two Romanian Roma ladies (Romanian-Hungarian actually judging by the names) of M5a1b mt-DNA .

    This HG is pretty well represented among Roma :

    http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm

     
    Mitochondrial haplogroup M5a1b is present in 17 Roma samples, which also have the 3954 T-9833C coding motif, enabling us to subclassify them as M5a1b1a25. Moreover, 13 out of the 17 individuals share the control region polymorphism 16298C, defining M5a1b1a125, together with previously published 105 M5a1 Roma7 and 6 Punjabi samples.... The remaining 4 Roma samples (3 unique sequences) can be grouped into a new lineage (M5a1b1a2), defined by the absence of 16298C, but with the coding 15902C variant, also present in 4 South Asian samples.... The fact that Roma and South Asians share variants within this haplogroup might indicate that two different M5a1b lineages (i.e. M5a1b1a1, M5a1b1a2) were already present in Indian groups before the proto-Roma left India.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-71066-y



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  16. #89
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    So, after a few days of exhaustive research, I think I have a fairly accurate estimate of my Romani admixture. I used the 23andme chromosome browser (by DNA genics), which shows all my matches per chromosome, and the length of the segment shared.

    I have matches with full Romani people from Moldova, Slovakia, Romania, France and Spain.

    What is interesting is that my 0.2% South Asian component is on chromosome 14 (using 23andme,Eurogenes K12b, etc.). I only have two Romani matches on that segment.

    The vast majority (about 200 people) of my full or partial Romani matches are through their "West Asian" component, on other chromosomes. This makes it particularly difficult to distinguish actual Romani ancestry from Greek West Asian ancestry, as most island Greeks like myself also score a lot of West Asian. What I did was to trace the relatives of matches I suspected to have partial Romani ancestry, and to check whether they had any full Romani matches, or matches with significant South Asian or West Asian admixture.

    Most of my matches scored about 0.2-1.5% West Asian and 0%-0.6% South Asian, and they came from countries like Romania, Ukraine, Slovakia, Croatia, Colombia, Mexico, etc. I would imagine that the average Romanian would not score and West Asian if they have no Romani admixture? I also matched 8 Italians who had either Y haplogroup H, or mtdna M, but zero West Asian, South Asian, or even Greek admixture, but still had Romani matches.

    In any case, if I add all the segments across all chromosomes I share with these 250 people, the grand total is about 186 cM, so 2.73% of my whole genome that could be of Romani ancestry. In 23andme, the TMRCA of this admixture was 5 generations ago, whereas on GEDMATCH I got a TMRCA= 6.8-7.2. Any ideas as which TMRCA could be more accurate? What is super strange is that I know most of my ancestors down to the 1750's, and none was Romani...Every chromosomal segment I share with matches of full or partial Romani descent as listed as "Iranian" in my Eurogenes chromosomal analysis.

    I suspect that the estimate could be somewhat inflated, as matching a Roma person does not 100% mean you have Roma ancestry, as admixture goes both ways. But I think it should be about right.

    In G25, using modern populations, I score about 3.5% Roma Barcelona, whereas with ancient Samples, I score 1.7% Shahr I Sokhta.

    I'd like to thank Markos for all his help during my investigation!
    Last edited by XXD; 03-09-2021 at 02:58 PM.
    distance: 1.656775
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.8
    Early Slavic: 24.5
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 12.7
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 10.2
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2: 1.7
    MAR_Taforalt: 0.8
    CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA: 0.7
    Yoruba: 0.6

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  18. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD View Post
    So, after a few days of exhaustive research, I think I have a fairly accurate estimate of my Romani admixture. I used the 23andme chromosome browser (by DNA genics), which shows all my matches per chromosome, and the length of the segment shared.

    I have matches with full Romani people from Moldova, Slovakia, Romania, France and Spain.

    What is interesting is that my 0.2% South Asian component is on chromosome 14 (using 23andme,Eurogenes K12b, etc.). I only have two Romani matches on that segment.

    The vast majority (about 200 people) of my full or partial Romani matches are through their "West Asian" component, on other chromosomes. This makes it particularly difficult to distinguish actual Romani ancestry from Greek West Asian ancestry, as most island Greeks like myself also score a lot of West Asian. What I did was to trace the relatives of matches I suspected to have partial Romani ancestry, and to check whether they had any full Romani matches, or matches with significant South Asian or West Asian admixture.

    Most of my matches scored about 0.2-1.5% West Asian and 0%-0.6% South Asian, and they came from countries like Romania, Ukraine, Slovakia, Croatia, Colombia, Mexico, etc. I would imagine that the average Romanian would not score and West Asian if they have no Romani admixture? I also matched 8 Italians who had either Y haplogroup H, or mtdna M, but zero West Asian, South Asian, or even Greek admixture, but still had Romani matches.

    In any case, if I add all the segments across all chromosomes I share with these 250 people, the grand total is about 186 cM, so 2.73% of my whole genome that could be of Romani ancestry. In 23andme, the TMRCA of this admixture was 5 generations ago, whereas on GEDMATCH I got a TMRCA= 6.8-7.2. Any ideas as which TMRCA could be more accurate? What is super strange is that I know most of my ancestors down to the 1750's, and none was Romani...Every chromosomal segment I share with matches of full or partial Romani descent as listed as "Iranian" in my Eurogenes chromosomal analysis.

    I suspect that the estimate could be somewhat inflated, as matching a Roma person does not 100% mean you have Roma ancestry, as admixture goes both ways. But I think it should be about right.

    In G25, using modern populations, I score about 3.5% Roma Barcelona, whereas with ancient Samples, I score 1.7% Shahr I Sokhta.

    I'd like to thank Markos for all his help during my investigation!
    Interesting research. Calculating TMRCA in endogamous populations is very difficult. You have a more limited set of genes that are passed around, split, and recombined than in larger populations. The sheer number of Roma matches you have is probably a reflection of this. Cousin to one, cousin to all.

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