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Thread: The genetic makeup of Finns

  1. #21
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    I believe that if the yield on the new Krasnoyarsk early Bronze Age individual are good, this could help model Uralics at large.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genos Historia View Post
    Could Karelians be the most pure Finns? They seem to have no Scandinavian admixture.

    Finnish @0.008
    Estonian/Lithuanian: 41%
    Scandinavia Iron/Viking age: 38%
    Saami Iron age: 20%

    Finnish_East @0.012
    Estonian/Lithuanian: 50%
    Scandinavia Iron/Viking age: 20%
    Saami Iron age: 29%

    Karelian @0.005
    Estonian/Lithuanian: 64%
    Scandinavian Iron/Viking age: 8%
    Saami Iron age: 27%
    So, Karelians are "pure", because they are most similar to Balts? Modern Uralic goups usually look like their current neigbours, Finns look like Balts and Scandinavians etc. During Proto Uralic stage, round 2000 BCE, the founding Uralic group for example was in a long and intimate contact with Indo Aryan/Indo Iranic continuum. What would have been "pure" then?

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     Jatt1 (01-12-2021)

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    What do you get when you model Finns with Iron Age Saamis, Baltic Finns and Germanic - like Levanluhta outlier?
    Modern Finns modeled with:

    Code:
    Baltic_EST_IA,0.12881,0.1064613,0.093903,0.0930778,0.0434952,0.0322583,0.0097137,0.0131533,0.0019773,-0.036356,0.0054128,-0.0121143,0.0222,0.0148862,-0.0057682,0.0081983,0.010474,-0.0006547,0.003289,0.011193,0.0060727,-0.00237,0.0028553,-0.0118087,-0.0021555
    FIN_Levanluhta_IA,0.1044325,-0.036051,0.1057825,0.0792965,-0.0122328,0.008576,0.006169,0.0141918,0.0037328,-0.0303422,0.033046,-0.0083175,0.019772,-0.0182695,-0.0065485,-0.0034805,-3.28e-05,-0.0031672,-0.0073848,0.0008442,0.016658,-0.0018547,-0.0016945,0.004097,0.0008382
    FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,0.135449,0.121864,0.083344,0.072352,0.047393,0.019522,-0.0094,0.005077,0.011453,0.001276,0.001137,0.002548,-0.011001,-0.013625,0.034609,0.0118,-0.004563,0.001647,0.012067,0.019384,0.000374,-0.001237,-0.004683,-0.002048,0.005389
     
    Target: Finnish:HG00350
    Distance: 2.9500% / 0.02950000
    51.4 Baltic_EST_IA
    47.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    0.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00346
    Distance: 2.8269% / 0.02826906
    47.2 Baltic_EST_IA
    38.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    14.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00337
    Distance: 4.0455% / 0.04045460
    47.2 Baltic_EST_IA
    40.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    12.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00311
    Distance: 3.9204% / 0.03920422
    55.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    32.8 Baltic_EST_IA
    11.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00277
    Distance: 4.3492% / 0.04349240
    49.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    43.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    7.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00190
    Distance: 4.4822% / 0.04482152
    43.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    40.8 Baltic_EST_IA
    15.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00183
    Distance: 3.7422% / 0.03742180
    45.6 Baltic_EST_IA
    29.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    25.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00182
    Distance: 2.6035% / 0.02603507
    65.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    24.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    10.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:HG00173
    Distance: 3.1185% / 0.03118503
    65.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    18.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    16.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:HG00171
    Distance: 3.6166% / 0.03616560
    58.2 Baltic_EST_IA
    25.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    16.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:GS000018756
    Distance: 3.2393% / 0.03239251
    53.4 Baltic_EST_IA
    24.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    22.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:GS000016895
    Distance: 3.3861% / 0.03386098
    58.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    22.2 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    19.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:GS000016894
    Distance: 3.2287% / 0.03228695
    60.8 Baltic_EST_IA
    24.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    14.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 3.1640% / 0.03163963 | R3P
    64.4 __Germanic
    26.4 __IllyricRoman
    9.2 __Finnic

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    Modern Finns modeled with:

    Code:
    Baltic_EST_IA,0.12881,0.1064613,0.093903,0.0930778,0.0434952,0.0322583,0.0097137,0.0131533,0.0019773,-0.036356,0.0054128,-0.0121143,0.0222,0.0148862,-0.0057682,0.0081983,0.010474,-0.0006547,0.003289,0.011193,0.0060727,-0.00237,0.0028553,-0.0118087,-0.0021555
    FIN_Levanluhta_IA,0.1044325,-0.036051,0.1057825,0.0792965,-0.0122328,0.008576,0.006169,0.0141918,0.0037328,-0.0303422,0.033046,-0.0083175,0.019772,-0.0182695,-0.0065485,-0.0034805,-3.28e-05,-0.0031672,-0.0073848,0.0008442,0.016658,-0.0018547,-0.0016945,0.004097,0.0008382
    FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,0.135449,0.121864,0.083344,0.072352,0.047393,0.019522,-0.0094,0.005077,0.011453,0.001276,0.001137,0.002548,-0.011001,-0.013625,0.034609,0.0118,-0.004563,0.001647,0.012067,0.019384,0.000374,-0.001237,-0.004683,-0.002048,0.005389
     
    Target: Finnish:HG00350
    Distance: 2.9500% / 0.02950000
    51.4 Baltic_EST_IA
    47.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    0.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00346
    Distance: 2.8269% / 0.02826906
    47.2 Baltic_EST_IA
    38.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    14.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00337
    Distance: 4.0455% / 0.04045460
    47.2 Baltic_EST_IA
    40.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    12.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00311
    Distance: 3.9204% / 0.03920422
    55.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    32.8 Baltic_EST_IA
    11.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00277
    Distance: 4.3492% / 0.04349240
    49.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    43.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    7.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00190
    Distance: 4.4822% / 0.04482152
    43.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    40.8 Baltic_EST_IA
    15.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00183
    Distance: 3.7422% / 0.03742180
    45.6 Baltic_EST_IA
    29.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    25.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:HG00182
    Distance: 2.6035% / 0.02603507
    65.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    24.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    10.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:HG00173
    Distance: 3.1185% / 0.03118503
    65.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    18.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    16.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:HG00171
    Distance: 3.6166% / 0.03616560
    58.2 Baltic_EST_IA
    25.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    16.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:GS000018756
    Distance: 3.2393% / 0.03239251
    53.4 Baltic_EST_IA
    24.6 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    22.0 FIN_Levanluhta_IA

    Target: Finnish:GS000016895
    Distance: 3.3861% / 0.03386098
    58.0 Baltic_EST_IA
    22.2 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    19.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

    Target: Finnish:GS000016894
    Distance: 3.2287% / 0.03228695
    60.8 Baltic_EST_IA
    24.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    14.8 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    I score like this:
    HTML Code:
    Target: Norfern-Ostrobothnian_scaled
    Distance: 2.5166% / 0.02516589
    59.4	Baltic_EST_IA
    23.2	FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    17.4	FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o

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     Nino90 (01-12-2021)

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfern-Ostrobothnian View Post
    I score like this:
    HTML Code:
    Target: Norfern-Ostrobothnian_scaled
    Distance: 2.5166% / 0.02516589
    59.4	Baltic_EST_IA
    23.2	FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    17.4	FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    What is your though on the results? A bit high distance maybe.

    I heard that big parts of North West Russia is Uralic/Finnic originally. But they are Slavicized and nowadays even mixed with Slavs.

    According to Eurogenes 13 spreadsheet NW Russians have high Siberian admixture.
    Last edited by Nino90; 01-12-2021 at 10:21 AM.
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 3.1640% / 0.03163963 | R3P
    64.4 __Germanic
    26.4 __IllyricRoman
    9.2 __Finnic

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfern-Ostrobothnian View Post
    I believe that if the yield on the new Krasnoyarsk early Bronze Age individual are good, this could help model Uralics at large.
    Have you tried making any models for Finns yet using the new kra001 genome to look at their Nganasan-like/kra001 ancestry?

  9. #27
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    Semi-related to this, I've been wondering if there is any actual (pre)historic inkling truth to the division of Iron Age fennoscandians between the Kalevalans and the Louhi. I'm getting the vibe that the Louhi refer to the Kvens of northern Fennoscandia while the Kalevalans would probably refer the proper Baltic Finns that immigrated from Estonia and possibly southern Karelia during the Iron Age. While the Louhi people (possibly later being referred to as Kvens) would be the descendants of Late Bronze Age and early Iron age Levšluhta-people combining the cultures of early germanics in Western Finland and the Proto-Saami, especially the ones that inhabited Iron Age Ostro-Bothnia. The Louhi don't seem like your plain Saami either, though the do seem to have witchcraft as an important part of their mythic nature and display some matriarchal elements (which could have a relation to . So related to the genetic make-up of Finns, I wonder if the Germanic and Proto-Samic elements of Levšluhta ever really amalgamated and if any kind of culture bore fruit of that amalgamation. To me it seems that the Louhi are contrasted as alien from the Finns of Kalevala but are not really proper Lapps either, but sort seem to have some kind of warrior culture as well, which makes me consider if they could be a remnant of the proto-germanic tribes that inhabited the Finnish Bothnian region. Obviously we would need simply need more aDna from that era especially in Western Finland.

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     Nino90 (05-07-2021)

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by homunculus View Post
    Semi-related to this, I've been wondering if there is any actual (pre)historic inkling truth to the division of Iron Age fennoscandians between the Kalevalans and the Louhi. I'm getting the vibe that the Louhi refer to the Kvens of northern Fennoscandia while the Kalevalans would probably refer the proper Baltic Finns that immigrated from Estonia and possibly southern Karelia during the Iron Age. While the Louhi people (possibly later being referred to as Kvens) would be the descendants of Late Bronze Age and early Iron age Levšluhta-people combining the cultures of early germanics in Western Finland and the Proto-Saami, especially the ones that inhabited Iron Age Ostro-Bothnia. The Louhi don't seem like your plain Saami either, though the do seem to have witchcraft as an important part of their mythic nature and display some matriarchal elements (which could have a relation to . So related to the genetic make-up of Finns, I wonder if the Germanic and Proto-Samic elements of Levšluhta ever really amalgamated and if any kind of culture bore fruit of that amalgamation. To me it seems that the Louhi are contrasted as alien from the Finns of Kalevala but are not really proper Lapps either, but sort seem to have some kind of warrior culture as well, which makes me consider if they could be a remnant of the proto-germanic tribes that inhabited the Finnish Bothnian region. Obviously we would need simply need more aDna from that era especially in Western Finland.
    Interesting.

    I never really understood if the "Kvens" were Saami people or a different people.

    The original people in Finland were probably Saami like as seen in Levšnluhta. But there is one Germanic like outliner there aswell.

    And If I am not mistaken the Saami like individuals have "germanic" admixture at some point too.
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 3.1640% / 0.03163963 | R3P
    64.4 __Germanic
    26.4 __IllyricRoman
    9.2 __Finnic

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