Syeds of Punjab-History

[Raza94]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know the history or have some facts about Syeds in Punjab? For example if they came directly to Punjab or may have migrated from Delhi/UP or maybe Hyderabad? If anyone has any information or would like to add their own questions to the thread please do so!

[Biharguy]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know the history or have some facts about Syeds in Punjab? For example if they came directly to Punjab or may have migrated from Delhi/UP or maybe Hyderabad? If anyone has any information or would like to add their own questions to the thread please do so!

I guess a question to begin with would be what are common Sadaats in the Punjab and where/who do these Sadaats originate from?

[Raza94]

I guess a question to begin with would be what are common Sadaats in the Punjab and where/who do these Sadaats originate from?

Most of the sadaat found everywhere else are found in Punjab although I think less Naqvi are found in Punjab. A good number of Zaidi and Rizvi you can find in Punjab and to my knowledge a lot of those who claim Hassani descent like Gilani Sadaat (like myself)

[royaljoker]

The most important Saadats of Punjab generally have centres or at one point originated from Multan or near multan. Which seems to have really been quite a sufi Hub. The lineages that go back and reside to multan are incredibly old. Often arriving in India before or during the Sultanate of Delhi, but most often before.

Bukhari are probably the dominant Saadat of Punjab. There are also Gardezis and Zaidis. Again they all originate in Multan. Punjab also has had active migration of middle eastern sayyids in recent times too like I personally know some third generations punjabi sayyids originally from Iraq.

There are several Pirzada Saadats too (descending from saints). Often they are lot more recent with dubious or almost entirely fictional sayyid claims. And numerically these form the largest part of the current population of Sayyids.

South and East Punjab are often the home of legitimate sayyids. While illegitimate sayyids often originate from North and west (bordering Khyber). Thats not to say that everyone from there is illegitimate or vice versa.

Punjabi sayyids often use the title Shah. And the caste as a whole are often called Shah. Although Quraishis also use Shah.

[royaljoker]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know the history or have some facts about Syeds in Punjab? For example if they came directly to Punjab or may have migrated from Delhi/UP or maybe Hyderabad? If anyone has any information or would like to add their own questions to the thread please do so!

To my knowledge if there wasn't any return migration, (from hyderabad/ deccan) it was only during partition.

It was usually the other way around. Because many families residing in hyderabad were of turani origin and arrived with the asaf Jahi to deccan. They spent some time in punjab before going South. Nawab Muhammad Amin Khan (cousin of Nizam al mulk Asaf Jah I) was a governor of Punjab. The paigahs too spent considerable time in Punjab and still have branches there.

With UP/Bihar and modern day Haryana (although this was also Punajb) there was a subtle migration to Punjab proper after 1857. Many families involved like mine went to Punjab. Especially as UP was quite heavily penalised for their involvement. Military catchment for example entirely shifted to punjab instead of UP which was the case before 1857. Employment was much easier to find in Punjab for Sayyid families. And roving bands of bounty hunters that went after 1857 participants meant many mutiny families migrated to Hill region Punjab (like my own), Karachi and Rajasthan (although in Rajasthan they were often found out but the Maharajas often hid some too like former mughal princes). They say some also went to Swat and Khyber and all the way to Afghanistan. But yeah these were all 1857 mutiny participants. There wasn't any clear cut defined migration to Punjab otherwise. Many UP sayyid families like the Barha and Gardezis originally starts off in Punjab and moved to UP to be closer to Delhi and court circles. With the gradual fall of delhi and the rise of Oudh the incentive remained.

[Raza94]

To my knowledge if there wasn't any return migration, (from hyderabad/ deccan) it was only during partition.

It was usually the other way around. Because many families residing in hyderabad were of turani origin and arrived with the asaf Jahi to deccan. They spent some time in punjab before going South. Nawab Muhammad Amin Khan (cousin of Nizam al mulk Asaf Jah I) was a governor of Punjab. The paigahs too spent considerable time in Punjab and still have branches there.

With UP/Bihar and modern day Haryana (although this was also Punajb) there was a subtle migration to Punjab proper after 1857. Many families involved like mine went to Punjab. Especially as UP was quite heavily penalised for their involvement. Military catchment for example entirely shifted to punjab instead of UP which was the case before 1857. Employment was much easier to find in Punjab for Sayyid families. And roving bands of bounty hunters that went after 1857 participants meant many mutiny families migrated to Hill region Punjab (like my own), Karachi and Rajasthan (although in Rajasthan they were often found out but the Maharajas often hid some too like former mughal princes). They say some also went to Swat and Khyber and all the way to Afghanistan. But yeah these were all 1857 mutiny participants. There wasn't any clear cut defined migration to Punjab otherwise. Many UP sayyid families like the Barha and Gardezis originally starts off in Punjab and moved to UP to be closer to Delhi and court circles. With the gradual fall of delhi and the rise of Oudh the incentive remained.

Thats interesting. Our family story is Delhi to Punjab but not exactly sure how accurate that is as some members of the forum have said that it looks like there is possible UP admixture in my results but then again, not entirely sure how you can differentiate between Delhi and UP. Where did your family come from before Punjab?

[royaljoker]

Thats interesting. Our family story is Delhi to Punjab but not exactly sure how accurate that is as some members of the forum have said that it looks like there is possible UP admixture in my results but then again, not entirely sure how you can differentiate between Delhi and UP. Where did your family come from before Punjab?

I guess we're probably not the best example as we had lands in both Punjab and UP before 1857. Kind of like the post 1857 Nawabs of Nawabganj.

[desi]

Do Syeds have an incidence of the J1 haplogroup?

[subzero85]

Do Syeds have an incidence of the J1 haplogroup?

Some do.

This is from a sample of 33 Shia Syeds:

Broad Y-DNA Count %
J1 6 18.18%
R1a 6 18.18%
J2a 5 15.15%
E 3 9.09%
H 3 9.09%
I 2 6.06%
J2b 2 6.06%
T 2 6.06%
C 1 3.03%
L 1 3.03%
R1b 1 3.03%
R2 1 3.03%

[drobbah]

Some do.

This is from a sample of 33 Shia Syeds:

Broad Y-DNA Count %
J1 6 18.18%
R1a 6 18.18%
J2a 5 15.15%
E 3 9.09%
H 3 9.09%
I 2 6.06%
J2b 2 6.06%
T 2 6.06%
C 1 3.03%
L 1 3.03%
R1b 1 3.03%
R2 1 3.03%

What kind of E? E-M35/E-M78?