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Thread: New ancient samples [G25]

  1. #21
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    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Saka and Scythians formed in Cental Asia/Siberia. They were already post-Sintashta and very rich in Mongol_N ancestry so Mongolia_N is as much as Sintashta if not a better signature of Scythian ancestry. Afaik most Scythians, Cimmerians and Sarmatians east of Moldova show this kind of ancestry so the lack of it either means the people were non-Scythian or already very much mixed/influenced by locals, what makes their autosomal profile not representative for Scythians.
    Ok

    But the question that needs to be resolved is....are the scythians and sarmatians the same people or not ..........many scholars differ on this answer

    Cimmerians have been linked with the thracian group the Getae ( modern moldova area ) , where they already mixed with the Scythians

    There are too many unresolved questions involving sythians, sarmatians, thracians and cimmerians


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  2. #22
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    European Union England Ireland Ireland Munster Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalis View Post
    This is in response to the theory outlined on the PCA plot below* of the Balto-Scythian/Slavic origins of the new Hungary La Tène sample, and I assume by extension the easternmost Czechia Hallstatt Bylany sample DA112.

    *Posted by Arza at the Eurogenes blog comments section.




    May I suggest a more geographically coherent model would be for their ancestry to be a combination of, e.g., Czechia LBA and Bavaria/Austria IA (we only have Singen (Baden-Württemberg) IA at present). i.e. something genetically northern (Czechia LBA) and something genetically southern, but geographically nearby to both the Hungary La Tène sample and the easternmost Czechia Hallstatt Bylany sample.

    Looking at the plots, the modern Austrian_4 and Austrian_20 clusters seem close enough proxies for the type of "genetically southern" ancestry I'm envisioning.

    If we take the westernmost Czechia Hallstatt Bylany sample DA111 as the origin point of all Continental Celts (as in the PCA plot above), then we run into the problem of all modern Western Europeans plotting east of this sample, and as a consequence we start seeing (45% !) Baltic/Slavic influence everywhere we look.
    Hungary LBA would do it.

    I1504 (HUN_LBA)
    987-833 calBCE; J2a1a1a2b2a3b1a1b~; K1a1a

    Europe LDA plot - Axis 1v2 zoom




    Europe LDA plot - Axis 1v3 zoom

    Last edited by Capitalis; 01-26-2021 at 04:52 PM.
    Known ancestry: 53.1 SW England, 29.7 SW Ireland, 6.3 SE Ireland, 6.3 SW Wales, 3.1 NW Ireland (?), 1.6 NW England
    LivingDNA: 54.8 S+C England, 31.8 Ireland, 7.7 S Wales, 5.7 N England
    Y-DNA (P): Wiltshire; mtDNA (M): West Cork; mtDNA (P): Limerick/Dublin (?)
    Avatar is my 100% East Devon 2x great grandfather.
    Hidden Content

  3. #23
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    Could someone please warn Generalissimo that he put two identical samples in the datasheet?

    Code:
    IRL_MN:bally,0.119514,0.165531,0.048271,-0.041021,0.08063,-0.013666,-0.00188,0.002769,0.05788,0.084375,-0.008282,0.012739,-0.028246,-0.0139,-0.004614,0.001856,0.012647,0.006461,0.007039,-0.01113,0.013975,0.008161,-0.013064,-0.028438,-0.005029
    IRL_N:bally,0.119514,0.165531,0.048271,-0.041021,0.08063,-0.013666,-0.00188,0.002769,0.05788,0.084375,-0.008282,0.012739,-0.028246,-0.0139,-0.004614,0.001856,0.012647,0.006461,0.007039,-0.01113,0.013975,0.008161,-0.013064,-0.028438,-0.005029
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Ajeje Brazorf For This Useful Post:

     Nino90 (01-27-2021)

  5. #24
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    BA and IA French samples on Global25

    Code:
    Distance to:	FRA_Hauts_De_France_IA2:BFM265
    0.03051288	French_Nord
    0.03086361	Belgian
    0.03153882	French_Brittany
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:ERS86
    0.04884392	French_Occitanie
    0.04944355	French_Auvergne
    0.04975339	French_Alsace
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:ERS1164
    0.03925135	Austrian
    0.03988447	Afrikaner
    0.03991377	Belgian
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PEY53
    0.04204460	French_Brittany
    0.04281732	Welsh
    0.04339020	French_Seine-Maritime
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PEY163
    0.04850589	Spanish_Soria
    0.05378275	Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.05513790	French_South
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:COL153A
    0.04637141	French_Nord
    0.04701251	French_Alsace
    0.04797741	Swiss_German
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:COL11
    0.04234771	Orcadian
    0.04251023	Icelandic
    0.04335452	Danish
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PECH8
    0.04478077	Basque_Spanish
    0.04534713	French_South
    0.04686878	Spanish_La_Rioja
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:Jeb8
    0.03315755	French_Occitanie
    0.03438470	French_Auvergne
    0.03541950	French_Nord
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Occitanie_IA2:BES1248
    0.04477077	English
    0.04643089	French_Brittany
    0.04643611	Icelandic
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:NOR3-6
    0.04082146	Orcadian
    0.04120043	English_Cornwall
    0.04172777	English
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:NOR2B6
    0.04542256	Swiss_French
    0.04603791	Spanish_Girona
    0.04676910	French_Auvergne
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_LBA:NIED
    0.04584160	Spanish_Soria
    0.04811175	French_South
    0.05344652	Spanish_Castello
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA_o:RIX2
    0.03957495	French_Occitanie
    0.04190718	French_Auvergne
    0.04251553	French_Nord
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:RIX15
    0.05089787	French_Occitanie
    0.05157299	French_Paris
    0.05236742	French_Pas-de-Calais
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Occitanie_EMBA:QUIN234
    0.06038232	Basque_French
    0.06101394	Basque_Spanish
    0.06113922	French_South
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:RIX4
    0.02993075	French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03624182	French_Paris
    0.03782861	Belgian
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:OBE3722
    0.03981148	Icelandic
    0.04175627	Irish
    0.04208925	Orcadian
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:OBE3626-1
    0.03823439	Norwegian
    0.04090761	Swedish
    0.04126319	Icelandic
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:BIS385
    0.04210831	French_Brittany
    0.04229316	Afrikaner
    0.04394124	Welsh
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:BIS130
    0.05573748	French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.06243253	Belgian
    0.06251853	French_Nord
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Occitanie_EBA:EUG11
    0.04994425	French_South
    0.04998928	Basque_Spanish
    0.05109359	Basque_French
    
    Distance to:	Bell_Beaker_FRA_C:I3875
    0.03741733	French_Brittany
    0.03802123	Welsh
    0.03941707	French_Pas-de-Calais
    
    Distance to:	FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:PSS4170
    0.03543781	French_South
    0.03753602	Basque_French
    0.03927828	Basque_Spanish
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Ajeje Brazorf For This Useful Post:

     Nino90 (01-27-2021)

  7. #25
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    Sweden Italy Italy 1861-1946 Sami Vatican Italy Tuscany
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    BA and IA French samples on Global25
    New samples?

    Are they on the spreadsheet yet?
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 1.7288% / 0.01728791 | R3P
    51.6 VK2020_IRL_Eyrephort_VA = Germanic
    37.4 Levant_LBN_MA_o6 = South Euro
    11.0 RUS_Chalmny-Varre = Saami

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    New samples?

    Are they on the spreadsheet yet?
    These samples were added yesterday by Generalissimo:

    Code:
    Bell_Beaker_POL:pcw260
    Bell_Beaker_POL:pcw280
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw040
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw061
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw070
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw211
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw350
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw361
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw362
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw041
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3a
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3b
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3c
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap12c
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Lombardian:NIEcap6
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:BIS130
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:BIS385
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:OBE3626-1
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:OBE3722
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:PSS4170
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:RIX4
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:RIX15
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA_o:RIX2
    FRA_Grand_Est_EN:Schw72-15
    FRA_Grand_Est_EN:Schw432
    FRA_Grand_Est_EN_o:Mor6
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:Jeb8
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:NOR2B6
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:NOR3-6
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:COL11
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:COL153A
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:ERS86
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:ERS1164
    FRA_Grand_Est_LBA:NIED
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BERG02-2
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BERG157-2
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BERG157-7
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BUCH2
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:PSS4693
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:ROS45
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:ROS78
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:ROS102
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:WET370
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_IA2:BFM265
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_LN:CBV95
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_MN:BLP10
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_MN:Es97-1
    FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER503
    FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER3023
    FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER3123
    FRA_Occitanie_EBA:EUG11
    FRA_Occitanie_EMBA:QUIN234
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:BES1248
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PECH8
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PEY53
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PEY163
    FRA_Occitanie_LN:PEI2
    FRA_Occitanie_MN:CRE20D
    IRL_EN:PN04
    IRL_EN:PN05
    IRL_EN:PN10_PN113
    IRL_EN:PN107
    IRL_EN_MN:ASH3
    IRL_EN_MN:PB357
    IRL_EN_MN:PN02
    IRL_EN_MN:PN13
    IRL_EN_MN:PN112
    IRL_LN:CAK68
    IRL_LN:CAK530
    IRL_LN:CAK531
    IRL_LN:CAK532
    IRL_LN:CAK533
    IRL_Meso:KGH6
    IRL_Meso:SRA62
    IRL_MN:ANN1
    IRL_MN:ANN2
    IRL_MN:ARD2
    IRL_MN:ASH1
    IRL_MN:BG72
    IRL_MN:CH448
    IRL_MN:GNM1007
    IRL_MN:GNM1076
    IRL_MN:MB6
    IRL_MN:NG10
    IRL_MN:NGZ1
    IRL_MN:PB186
    IRL_MN:PB443
    IRL_MN:PB581
    IRL_MN:PB672
    IRL_MN:PB675
    IRL_MN:PB754
    IRL_MN:PB768
    IRL_MN:PB1327
    IRL_MN:PB1794
    IRL_MN:PB2031
    IRL_MN:PN03
    IRL_MN:PN06
    IRL_MN:PN07
    IRL_MN:PN12
    IRL_MN:PN16
    IRL_N:bally
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:BOL003
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:HAL001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:HAN002
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:HAN004
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:IVA001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:NAU001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:NAU002
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:NIK008AB
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:VOD001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:VOR004
    RUS_Veretye_Meso:PES001
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ajeje Brazorf For This Useful Post:

     jstephan (01-27-2021),  Nino90 (01-28-2021)

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    These samples were added yesterday by Generalissimo:

    Code:
    Bell_Beaker_POL:pcw260
    Bell_Beaker_POL:pcw280
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw040
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw061
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw070
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw211
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw350
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw361
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw362
    Corded_Ware_POL:pcw041
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3a
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3b
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3c
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap12c
    DEU_MA_Alemanic_Lombardian:NIEcap6
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:BIS130
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:BIS385
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:OBE3626-1
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:OBE3722
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:PSS4170
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:RIX4
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA:RIX15
    FRA_Grand_Est_EBA_o:RIX2
    FRA_Grand_Est_EN:Schw72-15
    FRA_Grand_Est_EN:Schw432
    FRA_Grand_Est_EN_o:Mor6
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:Jeb8
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:NOR2B6
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA1:NOR3-6
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:COL11
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:COL153A
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:ERS86
    FRA_Grand_Est_IA2:ERS1164
    FRA_Grand_Est_LBA:NIED
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BERG02-2
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BERG157-2
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BERG157-7
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:BUCH2
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:PSS4693
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:ROS45
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:ROS78
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:ROS102
    FRA_Grand_Est_MN:WET370
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_IA2:BFM265
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_LN:CBV95
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_MN:BLP10
    FRA_Hauts_De_France_MN:Es97-1
    FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER503
    FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER3023
    FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER3123
    FRA_Occitanie_EBA:EUG11
    FRA_Occitanie_EMBA:QUIN234
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:BES1248
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PECH8
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PEY53
    FRA_Occitanie_IA2:PEY163
    FRA_Occitanie_LN:PEI2
    FRA_Occitanie_MN:CRE20D
    IRL_EN:PN04
    IRL_EN:PN05
    IRL_EN:PN10_PN113
    IRL_EN:PN107
    IRL_EN_MN:ASH3
    IRL_EN_MN:PB357
    IRL_EN_MN:PN02
    IRL_EN_MN:PN13
    IRL_EN_MN:PN112
    IRL_LN:CAK68
    IRL_LN:CAK530
    IRL_LN:CAK531
    IRL_LN:CAK532
    IRL_LN:CAK533
    IRL_Meso:KGH6
    IRL_Meso:SRA62
    IRL_MN:ANN1
    IRL_MN:ANN2
    IRL_MN:ARD2
    IRL_MN:ASH1
    IRL_MN:BG72
    IRL_MN:CH448
    IRL_MN:GNM1007
    IRL_MN:GNM1076
    IRL_MN:MB6
    IRL_MN:NG10
    IRL_MN:NGZ1
    IRL_MN:PB186
    IRL_MN:PB443
    IRL_MN:PB581
    IRL_MN:PB672
    IRL_MN:PB675
    IRL_MN:PB754
    IRL_MN:PB768
    IRL_MN:PB1327
    IRL_MN:PB1794
    IRL_MN:PB2031
    IRL_MN:PN03
    IRL_MN:PN06
    IRL_MN:PN07
    IRL_MN:PN12
    IRL_MN:PN16
    IRL_N:bally
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:BOL003
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:HAL001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:HAN002
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:HAN004
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:IVA001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:NAU001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:NAU002
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:NIK008AB
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:VOD001
    RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:VOR004
    RUS_Veretye_Meso:PES001
    Are they already added to Vahaduo ancients spreadsheet?

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korabi View Post
    Are they already added to Vahaduo ancients spreadsheet?
    In Lucas' version? Not yet.
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Ajeje Brazorf For This Useful Post:

     Korabi (01-27-2021)

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