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Thread: Are the Somali Jiddu an assimilated Cushitic group?

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    Are the Somali Jiddu an assimilated Cushitic group?

    I was reading an old linguistic paper and the author concluded that the Jiddu Southern Somali dialect has a sidamo (highland east Cushitic language) and a konso like substratum.


    Since Somalis don’t border these groups and no other Somali dialects contain similar elements, The author claimed this proves Jiido groups travelled from Ethiopia and were Somalised when they arrived in Southern Somalia.


    Very interesting claim since the jiddu claim a Somali lineage. The ones in Ethiopia speak afaan Oromo.

    DNA studies on them would be interesting.

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    Didn't the Orma (Oromo sub-branch) use to live in South Somalia but were pushed south to the River Tana in Kenya by the more powerful Daroods venturing South for better pastures? I think South Somalia was a lot more diverse than today
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    @Drobbah,

    Prior to the mass Oromo migrations in the Middle Ages into Southern Somalia, Eastern Ethiopia and Kenya, there would have been a continuous presence of Omo-Tana speakers in these regions.

    The Oromo migrations split Somali speakers form other Omo-Tana speakers such as the Rendille and so forth.

    Oromo are not really native to Northern Kenya and Southern Somalia.

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    autosomally i don't believe they're any different than any other somali clan, i was always under the assumption that jiddu and other maay languages all branched off from the same proto somali group that maxaa (standard somali) branched off from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Didn't the Orma (Oromo sub-branch) use to live in South Somalia but were pushed south to the River Tana in Kenya by the more powerful Daroods venturing South for better pastures? I think South Somalia was a lot more diverse than today
    Prior to the Orma it was a Somali speaking madanle group that lived in South Somalia along with the Tunni/Garre and then by the 16th century Oromo migration orma founds it way there. And then in the 19th century Daroods due to droughts migrated south and squeezed them out.

    But yeah don't think they have anything to do with the Dialects in the south.

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    Could very well be. Honestly i think South Somalia prior to the 1st century AD was populated by a seperate South Cushitic speaking stock that were later Somalinized by the Northern Somali Migration. That probably accounts for the dialectal diversity you see in the South Somalia and the substratum.

    That and the fact that Raxanweyn are pretty much a conglomerate that are known to assimilate foreigners into their social structure, wether they be other east africans or other Somali clan groups. But this happened very early in history and probably by the 1st century AD due to continous stream of Northern Migrations the people were fully Somalinized.
    Last edited by Mirix; 01-30-2021 at 08:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    Prior to the Orma it was a Somali speaking madanle group that lived in South Somalia along with the Tunni/Garre and then by the 16th century Oromo migration orma founds it way there. And then in the 19th century Daroods due to droughts migrated south and squeezed them out.

    But yeah don't think they have anything to do with the Dialects in the south.
    Tunni aren't Somalis but Af-Maay people and Garre probably never spoke Somali but a language called AfGarre.I don't think Somalis were in places like Banadir untill the early middle ages and Jubaland untill the last two centuries.
    Last edited by drobbah; 01-30-2021 at 12:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Tunni aren't Somalis but Af-Maay people and Garre probably never spoke Somali but a language called AfGarre.I don't think Somalis were in places like Banadir untill the early middle ages and Jubaland untill the last two centuries.
    Af-Maay people are Somalis and as far as Af-Maay is concerned it's a Somali dialect. It has 80-90% of the same vocab and it is partially mutally intelligeable and increase intelligibility with more profeciency you have in Standard Somali. The subtratum you see that accounts for the structual and gramitical differences are from the earliest pre-Somali inhabitants and their diverse less homogenous make up explains the variations . Furthermore there is no real cultural differentiation seperating them from other Northern Somalis as one might think ,economically complimentary and cultural intermingling and the commonalities in language, rich oral literrature not whitstanding the dialectal differences and shared religion pushes against any sort of cultural differentiation. There is also the belief of common descent.

    Garre spoke Tunni or a Somali Language and then became more Oromoized in the 16th century migration of Borana and became clients to them. They still kept their Somali culture, identity and genealogy, then speak Somalinized Borana language called Af Garre. Before then Garre was and is mostly associated with the Tunni Clan and is genealogically tied to Dir a Northern clan. Garre themselves hold a tradition of Northern Migrations to the South.

    There was also a seperate Somali speaking group called ''Madanle'' that the Ajuuran were the off shot from in Southern Somalia and Northern Kenya in Pre-Islam. They were well diggers and built cairns. Somalis were certainly in Southern Somalia and benadir by the 1st century AD many of these communities like Raxanweyn who are made up of mostly of diverse clans of Northern origin, Ajuuran, Hawiye clans etc have very deep rooted and old farming traditions, well digging and cairn culture in that region in places like Shabelle and Jubba. And the ancient Dabshid, the same calendar observed in both south and north. Alot of it stretches back into Pre-Islam.

    The Hawiye of the central region have had a long history of agricultural practices . Oral traditions of those clans show that their settlement and subsequent farming practices have been going on for several centuries
    I also think it's consistent with the Peripilus that didn't really differentiate the Southerners from Northerners from eachother and grouped them same.

    The migrations from North to South and West has been probably continous throughout history. It didn't happen only in the last two centuries we just have more record of darood migrations because its much closer to our modern time. But before them there was others living there albeit probably more sparsely.
    Last edited by Mirix; 01-31-2021 at 02:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    Af-Maay people are Somalis and as far as Af-Maay is concerned it's a Somali dialect. It has 80-90% of the same vocab and it is partially mutally intelligeable and increase intelligibility with more profeciency you have in Standard Somali.
    Af-Maay is a distinct language and because of discriminatory policies by the Somali government in Mogadishu were forced to identify as Somali and continue to have their language sidelined as a mere backward dialect.Spanish and Portuguese has mutual intelligibility than Af-Maay and Af-Somali.If a Spanish tried learning Portuguese, obviously they would increase their ability to know Portuguese and that goes for anyone learning the language.It's very clear that Af-Maay is not Somali, they are two distinct languages that share a recent origin.The Somali spoken in Benadir is a dialect of Somali, while Northern Somali has dialects of it's own which is now spoken from the Awash river to Garissa.


    The subtratum you see that accounts for the structual and gramitical differences are from the earliest pre-Somali inhabitants and their diverse less homogenous make up explains the variations . Furthermore there is no real cultural differentiation seperating them from other Northern Somalis as one might think ,economically complimentary and cultural intermingling and the commonalities in language, rich oral literrature not whitstanding the dialectal differences and shared religion pushes against any sort of cultural differentiation. There is also the belief of common descent.
    It is Af-Maay that was probably heavily influenced by the incoming Somali which might account for why intelligibility is one way (Af-Maay speakers can understand Somalis but not the other way around).The Maay People were in Southern Somalia prior to the medieval expansions of Somalis from the North in multiple waves.The Maay people probably lost a lot of their unique culture due to Somalis gaining supremacy in Southern Somalia and being an island of distinct people in a Somali ocean.I've also never heard any Somali from the North/Ethiopia that claims to have common descent with the Af-Maay people, majority of us don't know anything about them except that they don't speak Somali.

    Garre spoke Tunni or a Somali Language and then became more Oromoized in the 16th century migration of Borana and became clients to them. They still kept their Somali culture, identity and genealogy, then speak Somalinized Borana language called Af Garre. Before then Garre was and is mostly associated with the Tunni Clan and is genealogically tied to Dir a Northern clan. Garre themselves hold a tradition of Northern Migrations to the South.
    Garre spoke a language that was related to Somali,Af-Maay etc but was distinct and was closely related to the language of the Boon hunter-gatherers.

    There was also a seperate Somali speaking group called ''Madanle'' that the Ajuuran were the off shot from in Southern Somalia and Northern Kenya in Pre-Islam. They were well diggers and built cairns. Somalis were certainly in Southern Somalia and benadir by the 1st century AD many of these communities like Raxanweyn who are made up of mostly of diverse clans of Northern origin, Ajuuran, Hawiye clans etc have very deep rooted and old farming traditions, well digging and cairn culture in that region in places like Shabelle and Jubba. And the ancient Dabshid, the same calendar observed in both south and north. Alot of it stretches back into Pre-Islam.I also think it's consistent with the Peripilus that didn't really differentiate the Southerners from Northerners from eachother and grouped them same.
    The Ajuuraan and majority of the other Somalis all claim a Middle Ages origin in Sanaag.Groups like the Hawiye/Ajuuraan probably left Eastern Somaliland in the early middle ages while clans like the Marexaan migrated south into places like Mudug and beyond in the 16th century onwards.The people who lived in Southern Somalia prior were people like the Maay people, who were linguistically and probably culturally very similar to the Somalis and Northern Kenya was probably full of Rendille-like people before the Somalis & Boranas started encroaching upon them from the North.They probably built those cairns and deep rooted farming traditons as Somalis generally had a disdain for such activities.I wouldn't be shocked if foreigners couldn't tell the difference between Somalis and those linguisitcally & culturally similiar to us who were the original inhabitants of the region prior to the Middle Ages.




    The migrations from North to South and West has been probably continous throughout history. It didn't happen only in the last two centuries we just have more record of darood migrations because its much closer to our modern time. But before them there was others living there albeit probably more sparsely.
    I agree there were many waves of Somalis from Eastern Somaliland with the Ajuuraan/Hawiye and other Samaale groups being the first to venture south with waves of Dir (Surre,Biyomaal etc) and Daroods coming later.
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