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Thread: What was the geographic border between East and West Eurasians?

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    What was the geographic border between East and West Eurasians?

    I would guess the Indus River but I really am not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    I would guess the Indus River but I really am not sure.
    Are you talking about Eastern Non Africans as a whole or just East Asian type ancestry? If the former, I would say the Indus is where ENA ancestry starts to get really noticeable. If the latter, I would say the Astrakhan-arkhangelsk (made infamous as the AA line by the Nazis) is where Eastern Eurasian ancestry gets noticeable. In history, before Turkic-Mongolic expansion, it used be the altai mountains (excluding Uralics in NW Eurasia). Hence why heavily East Eurasian steppe invaders were not common during pre-classical and classical antiquity Western Eurasia (Babylon, Assyria, Medes, Achaemenids, Greek city states, Hellenistic era, Republican Rome, Early Imperial rome and Parthia) since most steppe invaders were still mostly WSH folks like western Scythians and Sarmatians and alans (basically NE European like with more influence of Iranian farmer and CHG stuff). That changed by the Byzantine and Sassanian eras (Huns, Hephtalites, Wusun, Gokturks, Magyars etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    I would guess the Indus River but I really am not sure.
    I have always been told that the geographical border is formed of the Ural mountains in Russia and the Black Sea.

    Edit: Not sure DNA follows the border so neatly as it occurs to me that ethnic groups with significant Asian admixture live in Europe. But then another definition of European is the state of being from Europe and Asian from Asia.
    Last edited by lana6765; 02-07-2021 at 04:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diictodon View Post
    Are you talking about Eastern Non Africans as a whole or just East Asian type ancestry? If the former, I would say the Indus is where ENA ancestry starts to get really noticeable. If the latter, I would say the Astrakhan-arkhangelsk (made infamous as the AA line by the Nazis) is where Eastern Eurasian ancestry gets noticeable. In history, before Turkic-Mongolic expansion, it used be the altai mountains (excluding Uralics in NW Eurasia). Hence why heavily East Eurasian steppe invaders were not common during pre-classical and classical antiquity Western Eurasia (Babylon, Assyria, Medes, Achaemenids, Greek city states, Hellenistic era, Republican Rome, Early Imperial rome and Parthia) since most steppe invaders were still mostly WSH folks like western Scythians and Sarmatians and alans (basically NE European like with more influence of Iranian farmer and CHG stuff). That changed by the Byzantine and Sassanian eras (Huns, Hephtalites, Wusun, Gokturks, Magyars etc)
    Eastern Non Africans

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    The Himalayas and central Asian mountain corridor were probably the very first boundary that separated Eurasians into east and west. This was very ancient and further massive internal divisions emerged soon due to geographic divisions such as the split of East Eurasians into Australo-Melanesians, AASI, NE Asians, and the various native SE Asian populations.



    During the Bronze age, Kazakhstan was still heavily West Eurasian(and fairly European like with the CWC like Andronovo culture dominating the region). However it was easy for east Eurasian ancestry to permeate through the Central Asian steppes not long thereafter from Mongolia and the Altai mountains. Even the Sakas were heavily EA shifted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    I would guess the Indus River but I really am not sure.
    Maps posted in the thread below based on Global 25 Principal Components show where geographically each component peaks and can be helpful in delineating a East Eueasian - West Eurasian "border per say." Qoutations because genetically it's hard to define.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....nts-On-the-Map
    PC2 peaks in West Eurasian populations and gradually diminishes as we move east. Indian subcontinent is where this gradual shift is most noticable from West>East. Eurasian steppe land is another example as there is no geographic barrier to movement except the Urals forming a geographic barrier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    Maps posted in the thread below based on Global 25 Principal Components show where geographically each component peaks and can be helpful in delineating a East Eueasian - West Eurasian "border per say." Qoutations because genetically it's hard to define.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....nts-On-the-Map
    PC2 peaks in West Eurasian populations and gradually diminishes as we move east. Indian subcontinent is where this gradual shift is most noticable from West>East. Eurasian steppe land is another example as there is no geographic barrier to movement except the Urals forming a geographic barrier.
    This post by Nganasankhan shows modern population averages with Lowest and Highest value on each of the 25 PCs. PC2 here peaks among Sardinians and is lowest among the Han population.
    PC1 Mbuti Lithuanian_VZ.
    PC2 Han_Zhejiang Sardinian
    PC3 Papuan Nganassan
    PC4 Yemenite_Mahra Papuan
    PC5 Cameroon_Bafut Makhuwa
    PC6 Spanish_Galicia Ingushian
    PC7 Li Kol
    PC8 Surui Han_Jiangsu
    PC9 Greek_Macedonia Somali
    PC10 Serbian Icelandic
    PC11 Yao Ingushian
    PC12 Nivkh Azeri_Turkey
    PC13 Roma_Bilbao Tajik_Yagnobi
    PC14 Cameroon_Bangwa Newar
    PC15 Eskimo Tuvinian
    PC16 Turkish_Kayseri Aeta
    PC17 Hungarian Tibetan_Yajiang
    PC18 Iyer Greek_Central_Macedonia
    PC19 Spanish_Murcia Palestinian
    PC20 Nasoi Ethiopian_Oromo
    PC21 Igbo Ethiopian_Anuak
    PC22 Tuvinian Spanish_Aragon
    PC23 Shor_Khakassia Zapotec
    PC24 Hazara_Afghanistan Kinh_Vietnam
    PC25 Brahmin_Gujarat Bengali_Bangladesh
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....with-G25/page2

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    South Asia is the confluence of East and West Eurasian gene flow, and the steppe is a fast corridor, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard23 View Post
    South Asia is the confluence of East and West Eurasian gene flow, and the steppe is a fast corridor, IMO.

    Did they arrive there simultaneously or at different times? Or was the NW portion of South Asia West Eurasian and the eastern portion East Eurasian and then they met?

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    modern Uzbekistan is the border for the info I gathered over the years


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