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Thread: Breaking up Saudi J1

  1. #1
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    Breaking up Saudi J1

    Yfull has a pretty big Saudi sample size, 3067 when I made the count. Haplogroup J1 makes up more than 51% of the total. Frequencies for the main sub-haplogroups are given below, with those reaching 1% or more in bold : as expected, J-FGC11 dominates at 80.85%, followed by J-Z640 at 4.49%, J-YSC76 at 3.67%, J-ZS5383 at 3.6%, J-FGC4745 at 2.4% and J-L860 at 1.49%.

    J1b-Y6313 = 0.06%
    J1a1-Z2215
    -- J-Y29696 = 0.13%
    -- J-Z2217
    ---- J-CTS1026 = 0.13%
    ---- J-L620
    ------ J-PF4816
    --------- J-ZS4393
    ---------- J-ZS4416 = 0.19%
    ---------- J-P56 = 0.63%
    --------- J-P58
    ----------- J-ZS12519 = 0.06%
    ----------- J-CTS9721
    ------------- J-Y4067
    --------------- J-L817 = 0.06%
    --------------- J-ZS5383 = 3.60%
    ------------- J-Z643
    --------------- J-BY145013 = 0.06%
    --------------- J-Y16646 = 0.70%
    --------------- J-Z1865
    ----------------- J-L860 = 1.49%
    ----------------- J-Z1853
    ------------------- J-ZS3683 = 0.76%
    ------------------- J-Z2331
    --------------------- J-Z2324
    ----------------------- J-YP4763 = 0.06%
    ----------------------- J-Z2317
    ------------------------- J-Z2313
    --------------------------- J-Z2313* = 0.06%
    --------------------------- J-YSC234
    ----------------------------- J-YSC234* = 0.13%
    ----------------------------- J-ZS6178 = 0.25%
    ----------------------------- J-FGC4745 = 2.40%
    ----------------------------- J-Y3081 = 0.25%
    ----------------------------- J-Z1884
    ------------------------------- J-Z640 = 4.49%
    ------------------------------- J-YSC76 = 3.67%
    ------------------------------- J-FGC11 = 80.85%
    Last edited by Squad; 02-02-2021 at 07:15 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squad View Post
    Yfull has a pretty big Saudi sample size, 3067 when I made the count. Haplogroup J1 makes up more than 51% of the total. Frequencies for the main sub-haplogroups are given below, with those reaching 1% or more in bold : as expected, J-FGC11 dominates at 80.85%, followed by J-Z640 at 4.49%, J-YSC76 at 3.67%, J-ZS5383 at 3.6%, J-FGC4745 at 2.4% and J-L860 at 1.49%.

    J1b-Y6313 = 0.06%
    J1a1-Z2215
    -- J-Y29696 = 0.13%
    -- J-Z2217
    ---- J-CTS1026 = 0.13%
    ---- J-L620
    ------ J-PF4816
    --------- J-ZS4393
    ---------- J-ZS4416 = 0.19%
    ---------- J-P56 = 0.63%
    --------- J-P58
    ----------- J-ZS12519 = 0.06%
    ----------- J-CTS9721
    ------------- J-Y4067
    --------------- J-L817 = 0.06%
    --------------- J-ZS5383 = 3.60%
    ------------- J-Z643
    --------------- J-BY145013 = 0.06%
    --------------- J-Y16646 = 0.70%
    --------------- J-Z1865
    ----------------- J-L860 = 1.49%
    ----------------- J-Z1853
    ------------------- J-ZS3683 = 0.76%
    ------------------- J-Z2331
    --------------------- J-Z2324
    ----------------------- J-YP4763 = 0.06%
    ----------------------- J-Z2317
    ------------------------- J-Z2313
    --------------------------- J-Z2313* = 0.06%
    --------------------------- J-YSC234
    ----------------------------- J-YSC234* = 0.13%
    ----------------------------- J-ZS6178 = 0.25%
    ----------------------------- J-FGC4745 = 2.40%
    ----------------------------- J-Y3081 = 0.25%
    ----------------------------- J-Z1884
    ------------------------------- J-Z640 = 4.49%
    ------------------------------- J-YSC76 = 3.67%
    ------------------------------- J-FGC11 = 80.85%
    What are you trying to say?

  4. #3
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    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    1b-Y6313 = 0.06%
    J1a1-Z2215
    -- J-Y29696 = 0.13%
    -- J-Z2217
    ---- J-CTS1026 = 0.13%
    ---- J-L620
    -----J-FGC6064
    ------ J-PF4816
    -------J-ZS6599

    I remember in 2006 when I discovered that I was J1 (Brazilian Portuguese and Christian) and I always told my clade was completely different from the Semitic and Arab clades. Our J1-FGC6064 or J1-ZS6599 are almost only found in Northern Middle Eastern regions, some are very ancient Iranian clades with 12000 ybp ramifications while Arab clades are extremely recent and shallow in phylogenetic terms.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    1b-Y6313 = 0.06%
    J1a1-Z2215
    -- J-Y29696 = 0.13%
    -- J-Z2217
    ---- J-CTS1026 = 0.13%
    ---- J-L620
    -----J-FGC6064
    ------ J-PF4816
    -------J-ZS6599

    I remember in 2006 when I discovered that I was J1 (Brazilian Portuguese and Christian) and I always told my clade was completely different from the Semitic and Arab clades. Our J1-FGC6064 or J1-ZS6599 are almost only found in Northern Middle Eastern regions, some are very ancient Iranian clades with 12000 ybp ramifications while Arab clades are extremely recent and shallow in phylogenetic terms.
    Earlier posted by Parasar.

    Yes that would not surprise as most of the Dzudzuana's autosomal ancestry was deeply related western European hunter-gatherers.

    LGM Satsurblia is similar.
    "SAT29 shares more drift with Villabruna (Italy, 12140±70 bp) (Fu et al., 2016) and Dzudzuana2 than with other ancient individuals (Figure S3A), including the post-LGM individuals from the Caucasus (Satsurblia and Kotias). Among present-day Eurasian populations, SAT29 shows higher genetic affinity to Northern and Western Europeans rather than Central and Southern Asians (Figure S3."
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...01.08.425895v1


    Post LGM CHG and Iran mesolithic are very different.
    "Populations for which the ancient Caucasus genomes are best ancestral approximations include those of the Southern Caucasus and interestingly, South and Central Asia."

    We see that with WC1 vs Barcin too. They clearly 'wintered' the LGM in very different locations.
    Modern-day peoples with affinity to WC1

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    Last edited by Jatt1; 02-03-2021 at 03:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    1b-Y6313 = 0.06%
    J1a1-Z2215
    -- J-Y29696 = 0.13%
    -- J-Z2217
    ---- J-CTS1026 = 0.13%
    ---- J-L620
    -----J-FGC6064
    ------ J-PF4816
    -------J-ZS6599

    I remember in 2006 when I discovered that I was J1 (Brazilian Portuguese and Christian) and I always told my clade was completely different from the Semitic and Arab clades. Our J1-FGC6064 or J1-ZS6599 are almost only found in Northern Middle Eastern regions, some are very ancient Iranian clades with 12000 ybp ramifications while Arab clades are extremely recent and shallow in phylogenetic terms.
    Maybe it is the cult of Zahhak Tayyi who took over the prehistoric Iran until cult of Magi took over by gaining independence from Semitic people
    According to Persian legend, Zahak was a member of the Arabian “Tayyi” tribe [alt. Banu Ta’i].
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
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    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Y-DNA J1 conquered Arabia in the Bronze Age just like R1b conquered Western Europe in the Bronze Age and both originally moved from the vicinity of the Caspian Sea with some similar CHG_Iran components.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Y-DNA J1 conquered Arabia in the Bronze Age just like R1b conquered Western Europe in the Bronze Age and both originally moved from the vicinity of the Caspian Sea with some similar CHG_Iran components.
    R1b is from North of the Caspian Sea and moved with EHG and CHG components. Only thing they have in common is the CHG part.

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    Yes and the CHG_Iran part is the big question. We can find R1b in the South of the Caspian Sea in the Gilak population with a good proportion of R1b, R1a, J1, J2.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Y-DNA J1 conquered Arabia in the Bronze Age just like R1b conquered Western Europe in the Bronze Age and both originally moved from the vicinity of the Caspian Sea with some similar CHG_Iran components.

    Well we can't know for sure until we solve the mystery of the many yemeni early clades within P58 and L136 as a whole. Unless you can currently propose a good explanation as to how and when did P56, S4924, Z643*, "L93" and L860 make it to southern Arabia...

    My current take on this is that they probably arrived from Mesopotamia as an earlier migration than the other P58 clades, mainly FGC11 and Z640, which may had come from the southern Levant later on with the expansion of ASA languages.

    Or maybe like I alteady postulated, P58 expanded from Arabia, which at first glance appears far-stretched but is in fact an interesting possibility. The only problem with that is that even these ancient divergent yemeni clades all have TMRCAs no older than 5000 years, whereas E-M84 subclades in Yemen are fairly differentiated with TMRCAs exceeding 5kya and approaching 6kya. Im talking star-like expansions here at that. Although to remain fair there are still unresolved Z643 and J1(xP58) in Yemen, as well as the emirati Z643 cluster which may or may not be related to a yemeni tribal migration.

    Fact is we really need ancient yemeni samples to clarify the issue. Im pretty sure pre-Z1884 Yemen was overwhelmingly E-M84 and J-S4924
    Last edited by Squad; 02-04-2021 at 09:18 AM.

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  14. #10
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    United States of America India Hyderabad State Dutch East India Company Chola Empire
    Our Y chromosome and autosomal analysis identified genetic signatures of three likely centers of isolated evolution followed by population expansions. These modern centers correspond to archaeologically known LGP
    refugia4,9,27 in Southwest Asia4,5,34. The first, identified by Obsidian sourcing35 as an expansion center in Georgia/
    eastern Turkey12,13. Clear evidence of trade, and tool cultures mark the second refuge in the northern Levant7
    . The third in the southern Arabian Peninsula5 identified recently by Gandini et al.20. Archaeologically, the time period
    marking post glacial population expansions through Southwest Asia is associated with the early and middle
    Pre-Pottery Neolithic B, the increased reliance on domesticated plants and animals, increased evidence of trade
    and exchange along the earlier established obsidian trade routes, and coastal to inland trade of marine resources

    BATWING characterized three features in the genetic record during the expansion of J1 and J2. The earliest dates, with the oldest differentiations for J2 at 8.4 ka, and J1 at 8.9 ka, show an early divergence between the
    Caucasus
    from the rest of the populations. The branches, to the east down through Mesopotamia and to the west down through the Levant, maintained mutual isolation. Those earliest dispersions show post-last-glacial-period dates. Later, a significant number of branches occurred within a
    very narrow window of time, nearly polytomously, followed by relatively stability, marking the emergence of
    stronger regional isolation suggesting sedentism. That window marks a period near the end of the Holocene
    Climatic Optimum (HCO - 9 ka–5 ka). g aridification.
    Subsequent expansions of J1 show the Mesopotamian branch extending to Arabia and Yemen at about 4 ka.
    The signal of the original North African J1 expansion is overwhelmed in Egypt by more recent Levantine J1s
    (Fig. 2a). J2 shows similar but deeper isolation during the HCO, with a similar expansion date into North Africa
    (5.9 ka) as J1 (4.9 ka, Fig. 2b). Yet, its isolation in Egypt is far older, around 8.1 ka. Further, J2′s Mesopotamian
    population differentiated earlier from the Levantine populations (7.3 ka), with much more recent admixture
    among J2′s in Turkey (5.1 ka).

    https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/h...=1&isAllowed=y
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a2
    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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