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Thread: Any explanation for the presence of epicanthic folds among berbers ?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabaon View Post
    C.Coon said that chleuh in south morocco have a 12 % incidence of epicanthic fold. We also know that these people tend to score the highest amount of IBM ancestry in all North Africa so maybe there is a link with those paleolithic populations.
    It sounds like the incidence is higher in this population than it is in Northern Europeans. The only exceptions are European ethnicities with real amounts of Siberian or Central Asian admixture. Sami, Mari and Chuvash all have real and provable Siberian admixture so any higher incidence in these populations could be explained by old links to Siberia. In the rest of Northern Europe epicanthal folds are rare. They still occur though!

    It could have something to do with archaic humans maybe? But there seems to be something very unique about this population. It’s probably best not to assume it’s the same for Northern Europeans and North Africans.
    Last edited by lana6765; 05-13-2021 at 10:55 PM.

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    Considering there's no East Asian DNA in North Africans, the most likely explanation is that that eye shape evolved more than once in humans. Khoisan/Bushmen also have them, and they're not closely related to Asians. I'd like to know whether what we call "epicanthic folds" describe exactly the same eye shape or there's some variation in the fold pattern between the groups that have them (for example, Native Americans also have almond-shaped eyes, but theirs are not exactly like those of people from E. Asia). We have other examples of traits that likely evolved more than once, like wavy hair (present in Europe/W. Asia, South Asia and Australia) and afro-textured hair (Africa, SE Asia, India, PNG...).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    The nature of epicanticfold and the explanation behind it has been discussed in this thread: Epicanthic fold in North Western European

    Epicanticfold is most likely an old archaic human ancestral trait that some populations retained more than others. Owed Seeing that there is such lack of sensible evolutionary explanations for it.
    I’m not certain. It’s very rare in non Siberian/Asian admixed Europeans and even then some admixture has bled into nearby populations. I’m North West European and I have this trait. But I do get faint traces of Siberian and in one commercial test ‘Finnish’ and ‘Slavic’. I don’t know where’s it’s from, but theoretically the trait *could* have gotten passed down from some old admixture (e.g. from 500-5000 years ago) rather than from archaic humans.

    I think it’s unlikely that for North Africans it comes from Siberia, however. Unless it came by way of West Asia. Perhaps there was some undiscovered evolutionary advantage to having a mutation linked with this trait in that area.
    Last edited by lana6765; 05-15-2021 at 04:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lana6765 View Post
    I’m not certain. It’s very rare in non Siberian/Asian admixed Europeans and even then some admixture has bled into nearby populations. I’m North West European and I have this trait. But I do get faint traces of Siberian and in one commercial test ‘Finnish’ and ‘Slavic’. I don’t know where’s it’s from, but theoretically the trait *could* have gotten passed down from some old admixture (e.g. from 500-5000 years ago) rather than from archaic humans.

    I think it’s unlikely that for North Africans it comes from Siberia, however. Unless it came by way of West Asia. Perhaps there was some undiscovered evolutionary advantage to having a mutation linked with this trait in that area.
    The traits survival in some groups could be more likely be owed to founder effect. It's perhaps explains the prevelance more in less diverse groups and less in more diverse popualtions . This could be the reason it survived in Siberians and Asians , rather than not.

    For it to have evolved more than once in different populations confounds on the fact there is no logically evolutionary explanation for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkyway View Post
    Considering there's no East Asian DNA in North Africans, the most likely explanation is that that eye shape evolved more than once in humans. Khoisan/Bushmen also have them, and they're not closely related to Asians. I'd like to know whether what we call "epicanthic folds" describe exactly the same eye shape or there's some variation in the fold pattern between the groups that have them (for example, Native Americans also have almond-shaped eyes, but theirs are not exactly like those of people from E. Asia). We have other examples of traits that likely evolved more than once, like wavy hair (present in Europe/W. Asia, South Asia and Australia) and afro-textured hair (Africa, SE Asia, India, PNG...).
    The "East Asian" EDAR variant has also been found in the Yoruba, as another example.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkyway View Post
    Considering there's no East Asian DNA in North Africans, the most likely explanation is that that eye shape evolved more than once in humans. Khoisan/Bushmen also have them, and they're not closely related to Asians..
    it's not the same, clearly unrelated.

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