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Thread: South Asian claims of Persian/Arab descent - is it true?

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    One is a Jafri male who is from Lucknow area.

    One is a Zaidi male who is from New Delhi. He has a very high rate of foreign ancestry in autosomal terms despite potentially having both local haplogroups. He received a Central Asian result of 13.8%, 9.5% Iranian/Mesopotamian/Caucasian, 0.7% Broadly WANA, 0.5% Peninsular Arab along with 0.2% Chinese and 0.4% Broadly East Asian.

    Attachment 43542
    Thanks for sharing. You are right he does have high enough central Asian and WANA showing up. His R31 is surely restricted to India today (Rajisthani Rajputs according to Chaubey paper). Didn't find R31 in ancient samples either (outside the region). WRT R30b/R30a they are both present in Swat Valley. R30b is also present in ShahrISokhta-BA1, which explains two Iranians from Kerman with R30a and an Afghan from Kunduz with R30b.
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R30/
    They key here might be R-M417 which is not necessarily restricted to India but shared among other Indo-Europeans.
    Target: Kapisa_scaled
    Distance: 1.7453% / 0.01745296
    44.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
    35.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
    18.0 KAZ_Ak_Moustafa_MLBA1
    2.6 MNG_East_N

    Mitochondrial Haplogroup: R30b found in Shahr-I-Sokhta_BA1 subclades found in Swat IA:Leobanr, Katelai & Barikot Historic.

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  3. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    Thanks for sharing. You are right he does have high enough central Asian and WANA showing up. His R31 is surely restricted to India today (Rajisthani Rajputs according to Chaubey paper). Didn't find R31 in ancient samples either (outside the region). WRT R30b/R30a they are both present in Swat Valley. R30b is also present in ShahrISokhta-BA1, which explains two Iranians from Kerman with R30a and an Afghan from Kunduz with R30b.
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R30/
    They key here might be R-M417 which is not necessarily restricted to India but shared among other Indo-Europeans.
    The Jafri male's Y-DNA is J-M47 and I think that could be a J2a clade that has a strong claim to being Arab/Persian. Y-Full right now shows men from Iraq and the Arabian Peninsula. But I believe it has a decent representation in Iran also, just that they are currently under-represented.

    There's several Israeli results: Jerusalem and Haifa and wondering if they are Palestinians/Levantine Arabs or Jewish.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M47/
    Last edited by subzero85; 02-25-2021 at 09:56 PM.

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  5. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    Saadat Hasan Manto was also from Kashmir settled in Amritsar and identified as Kashmiri Punjabi. 'Manto' comes for Kashmiri(Koshur) for a ton and a half, according to Ayesha Jalal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHC1Clrlg1w.

    I wonder why there were differences in adherence to the caste system between West and East Bengal; and when these particularities start to emerge?
    A lot of Kashmiris in Punjab. The singers Farhan Saeed and Ali Azmat come to mind. Same with a very famous Punjabi folk singer Musarrat Nazir. Even Cricket umpire Aleem Dar who comes from my dads city (Jhang)

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  7. #334
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    Do Syed's/Foreign descended South Asian Muslims have family trees? I know Parsis have really extensive ones in Udvada (I think, not sure of the place) that go quite far back (till the 17th century in some cases).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    Do Syed's/Foreign descended South Asian Muslims have family trees? I know Parsis have really extensive ones in Udvada (I think, not sure of the place) that go quite far back (till the 17th century in some cases).
    We have one and I believe most Syeds do as well

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  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    Wdym "caste"? Is there a pseudo 'caste system' among Muslims in South Asia as well??? Are there different classes/castes?
    The two big divides are between Ajlaf (local converts) and Ashraf (Muslims of foreign descent and those who claim foreign descent), Christophe Jaffrelot has written about this.

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    To help resolve if the case of foreign vs local R1a, R1b, R2, J2 the biggest hurdle is the relative lack of Iranian sampless, especially from the modern-day states of Khorasan. But it is highly possible for Iranians and South Asians to have shared clades of the two.

    My own J2a has a complex distribution from Sicily to Bangladesh, which makes discerning extremely difficult.

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  15. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    To help resolve if the case of foreign vs local R1a, R1b, R2, J2 the biggest hurdle is the relative lack of Iranian sampless, especially from the modern-day states of Khorasan. But it is highly possible for Iranians and South Asians to have shared clades of the two.

    My own J2a has a complex distribution from Sicily to Bangladesh, which makes discerning extremely difficult.
    A step beyond Occam's Razor.

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  17. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    To help resolve if the case of foreign vs local R1a, R1b, R2, J2 the biggest hurdle is the relative lack of Iranian sampless, especially from the modern-day states of Khorasan. But it is highly possible for Iranians and South Asians to have shared clades of the two.

    My own J2a has a complex distribution from Sicily to Bangladesh, which makes discerning extremely difficult.
    As more people get their WGS test and get registered at sites like YFULL the origin and migration routes will become more clear. Who did you test with, have you registered with dna warehouse, it is free, they already have a huge R1b tree and are building for other haplogroups?
    Last edited by Jatt1; 02-27-2021 at 08:55 PM.

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  19. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    As more people get their WGS test and get registered at sites like YFULL the origin and migration routes will become more clear. Who did you test with, have you registered with dna warehouse, it is free, they already have a huge R1b tree and are building for other haplogroups?
    YFull goes too far back at the moment (5,000 TMRCA) and doesn't include the ancient Iranian sample. J2 was carried all over by historic peoples.

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