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Thread: Genericresults of prominent/famous South Asians thread

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    Genericresults of prominent/famous South Asians thread

    Oops @ thread title. Meant genetics results

    I really haven’t seen any examples, such as actors, sports stars,
    personalities, etc. What do we have so far?

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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    Oops @ thread title. Meant genetics results

    I really haven’t seen any examples, such as actors, sports stars,
    personalities, etc. What do we have so far?
    I used to match a Indian celebrity that is mixed in the 4-5th cousin range. The only thing is I matched their Euro portion (and some of her Euro relatives). LOL. I would rather not say who it is since she removed her results from GedMatch pretty quickly.

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    Of famous families

    From public data
    On R1a Arabia, you can see the crown prince of Arcot as being R-L657
    Sadozai are L-M20( https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults)
    but a descendant of Ahmad Shah Durrani was G-M283 https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=ycolorized

    Couldn't find public info on hindu royal families.
    but came across this; https://forums.familytreedna.com/for...-levites/page3 Anyone know why R1a is higher in brahmin's than Rajputs. Shouldn't they both be Aryans.
    Last edited by royaljoker; 02-18-2021 at 01:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by royaljoker View Post
    Of famous families

    From public data
    On R1a Arabia, you can see the crown prince of Arcot as being R-L657
    Sadozai are L-M20( https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults)
    but a descendant of Ahmad Shah Durrani was G-M283 https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=ycolorized

    Couldn't find public info on hindu royal families.
    but came across this; https://forums.familytreedna.com/for...-levites/page3 Anyone know why R1a is higher in brahmin's than Rajputs. Shouldn't they both be Aryans.
    Rajputs are a mixed caste that is more recent. Various groups that had power or were allied to powerful groups are now Rajputs. In India I have seen Rajasthanis take Maharana Pratap, or Jai Singh, or Man Singh etc as kul devtas(clan diety) and then say they are Rajput. Some of this process has been going on for a long time because the British were obsessed with Rajput and warring tribes.

    In reading older 18th century literature you'll find instances of many groups "converting" to Rajputs. Most Rajputs are a mix of forward castes, OBC's and various traditional Kshatriya castes. Hence, they do not have a genetic signature. Whereas the Brahmins are endogamous on the paternal line so more R1a, and generally less AASI than Rajputs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Rajputs are a mixed caste that is more recent. Various groups that had power or were allied to powerful groups are now Rajputs. In India I have seen Rajasthanis take Maharana Pratap, or Jai Singh, or Man Singh etc as kul devtas(clan diety) and then say they are Rajput. Some of this process has been going on for a long time because the British were obsessed with Rajput and warring tribes.

    In reading older 18th century literature you'll find instances of many groups "converting" to Rajputs. Most Rajputs are a mix of forward castes, OBC's and various traditional Kshatriya castes. Hence, they do not have a genetic signature. Whereas the Brahmins are endogamous on the paternal line so more R1a, and generally less AASI than Rajputs.
    I thought the Brahmin's were also of different backgrounds. Like Kashmiri Pandit Brahmin's compared to other Brahmins. I was under the impression that they have their different communities and hence different origins(Pancha-Gauda), especially as certain communities like Saraswat Brahmin (Brahmins from Saraswat region) are not actually accepted by other Brahmins. it reminds me of Kachwaha Rajputs who were also not accepted by their fellow Rajputs. So I guess both castes had their own convert infiltrators. With that in mind isn't it odd that Brahmins still have significantly higher R1a around 2/3rds. Or prehaps it was much harder to be absorbed by Brahmins than by Rajputs. Or prehaps Brahmins do really have a single origin rooted in the Into-Aryan invasion and depending on the location they settled they became Saraswat or Deshastha Brahmin.

    But the thing is that even when you take one sub group of Brahmins like Kanyakubja. The sub group itself seems to be comprised of lineages with different origins. Quoting the wiki on bengali Brahmins it says:

    "The Bengali Brahmins are categorised as Pancha-Gauda Brahmins (the Brahmins who traditionally lived towards the north of the Vindhyas) and belong to the Kanyakubja clan.[1].....

    ...The different Brahmin communities of Bengal have their own traditional accounts of origin, which are generally found in various genealogical texts known as kulagranthas or kulapanjikas. Other details may also be obtained from court chronicles of various kings of Bengal. Important writers are Harimishra (13th century C.E), Edu Mishra (13th century C.E), Devivara Ghatak (15th century C.E), Dhruvananda Mishra (post 15th century C.E), Vachaspati Mishra, Rajendralal Mitra among others."

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    John Abraham's Y-DNA was mentioned in the Arab/Persian descent thread: https://openthemagazine.com/features.../haplogroup-h/

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    Quote Originally Posted by royaljoker View Post
    I thought the Brahmin's were also of different backgrounds. Like Kashmiri Pandit Brahmin's compared to other Brahmins. I was under the impression that they have their different communities and hence different origins(Pancha-Gauda), especially as certain communities like Saraswat Brahmin (Brahmins from Saraswat region) are not actually accepted by other Brahmins. it reminds me of Kachwaha Rajputs who were also not accepted by their fellow Rajputs. So I guess both castes had their own convert infiltrators. With that in mind isn't it odd that Brahmins still have significantly higher R1a around 2/3rds. Or prehaps it was much harder to be absorbed by Brahmins than by Rajputs. Or prehaps Brahmins do really have a single origin rooted in the Into-Aryan invasion and depending on the location they settled they became Saraswat or Deshastha Brahmin.

    But the thing is that even when you take one sub group of Brahmins like Kanyakubja. The sub group itself seems to be comprised of lineages with different origins. Quoting the wiki on bengali Brahmins it says:

    "The Bengali Brahmins are categorised as Pancha-Gauda Brahmins (the Brahmins who traditionally lived towards the north of the Vindhyas) and belong to the Kanyakubja clan.[1].....

    ...The different Brahmin communities of Bengal have their own traditional accounts of origin, which are generally found in various genealogical texts known as kulagranthas or kulapanjikas. Other details may also be obtained from court chronicles of various kings of Bengal. Important writers are Harimishra (13th century C.E), Edu Mishra (13th century C.E), Devivara Ghatak (15th century C.E), Dhruvananda Mishra (post 15th century C.E), Vachaspati Mishra, Rajendralal Mitra among others."
    Brahmins do have various backgrounds but they probably have stronger founder effects. That plus male dominated mixing and probably mostly taking brides from outside. They also spread the cultural toolkit so even if they were from various Indo Aryan tribes those tribes were probably R1a dominated (again founder effects from proto PIE).

    As you stated, many groups have converted to Rajputs. Also there is no male mediated cultural toolkit spreading since they come from 15th to 19th century. It was probably much easier to declare yourself a Rajput with the help of the local Brahmin groups. Various Islamic conversions have also muddied the water a lot more. There was no "gatekeeping", causing even more groups to call themselves Rajputs. The Pakistani Rajput kits look like mid-caste Punjabis to me often with a bit more AASI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Rajputs are a mixed caste that is more recent. Various groups that had power or were allied to powerful groups are now Rajputs. In India I have seen Rajasthanis take Maharana Pratap, or Jai Singh, or Man Singh etc as kul devtas(clan diety) and then say they are Rajput. Some of this process has been going on for a long time because the British were obsessed with Rajput and warring tribes.

    In reading older 18th century literature you'll find instances of many groups "converting" to Rajputs. Most Rajputs are a mix of forward castes, OBC's and various traditional Kshatriya castes. Hence, they do not have a genetic signature. Whereas the Brahmins are endogamous on the paternal line so more R1a, and generally less AASI than Rajputs.
    Woah. Does this hold true for the Rajasthani Rajputs as well who I assume are the mainstream Rajputs (Vedic Kshatriyas?) ? Do you mean there's no continuity of Vedic Kshatriyas into modern caste community??

    Thakuris (the 'Thakur' caste/ so called Nepali Rajputs, (Not to be confused with Chhetris)) marry all over India and call themselves "Rajputs", dunno if it's accepted/not by Indian Rajputs. Their formation's like you said a multi-ethnic mix of Khas, Jaad and Magar kings/leaders and some recent to 200-300 century ago Indian Rajput admixture.

    Agree with you, I don't think they've any clear genetic signature.
    Last edited by kaazi; 02-18-2021 at 03:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Brahmins do have various backgrounds but they probably have stronger founder effects. That plus male dominated mixing and probably mostly taking brides from outside. They also spread the cultural toolkit so even if they were from various Indo Aryan tribes those tribes were probably R1a dominated (again founder effects from proto PIE).

    As you stated, many groups have converted to Rajputs. Also there is no male mediated cultural toolkit spreading since they come from 15th to 19th century. It was probably much easier to declare yourself a Rajput with the help of the local Brahmin groups. Various Islamic conversions have also muddied the water a lot more. There was no "gatekeeping", causing even more groups to call themselves Rajputs. The Pakistani Rajput kits look like mid-caste Punjabis to me often with a bit more AASI.
    Thanks, and one more thing.

    With the same reasoning would you say that a Brahmin who did not show R1a would really be of a "convert Brahmin" lineage. Or is the definition of a Brahmin too vague to exclude people.

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    I'm curious that the G Y-DNA results found in Tamil Brahmins is a IVC-Sumerian related founder affect.

    Royal Joker mentioned the Prince of Arcot.

    106994185_3324863497533385_6152116784498796084_n.jpg

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