pre-print genetic differentiation at the site of Kulubnarti in Christian Period Nubia

[beyoku]

PN L0s:
PN (Elmenteitan)- L0a1d
PN (other)- L0a2d
PN (other)- L0a*
PN (other)-L0f2a1

While the Nubian samples have 5 L0a1a1.Don't know how 4 PN samples + 2 PIA with various subclades of L0 is weak while 5 Nubian L0a1a1 samples makes it strong. Let's not forgot there's also L0f in a bronze age levantine sample but this lineage is largely absent in modern NE Africa.

Definitely a mistake on my part. Maybe i was thinking those L0s and L4s were originally the resident MOTA/Hadza/Forager lineages? Absence of M1 in BOTH group at Kulubnarti is still striking.

And this begs the question.....How far north do we consider the Y dna of both groups coming from and do we consider any of the L and M1 lineages to be northern maternal counterparts entering Sub Saharan Africa?

For instance a lineage like M1, especially M1a is seen in Africa as Horn of African derived subclades where they are found, the same for lineages like L3x/i/f..... and if we remove all this L and M1 diversity and just think of it as "East African" that leaves us with only 4 of 38 real Eurasian lineages coming from the North with Pastoralists. Im not quite ready to buy this. I think there could be a long discussion about lineages like M1a who's diversity "originates in the Horn of Africa" vs these lineages originating in their northern counterparts and having diversity that simply retained by Horn Africans. M1a and how it related to AA lineages and diversity look South to North. But the paternal lineages look North to South. Anyway....

[Hawk]

Guys, i have a question, one of them should be the Proto Afro-Asiatic marker.

Is it E-M34 (Natufian) or E-M78?

Afro-Asiatic shoouldn't be older than ~12-14 thousand years.

[drobbah]

Definitely a mistake on my part. Maybe i was thinking those L0s and L4s were originally the resident MOTA/Hadza/Forager lineages? Absence of M1 in BOTH group at Kulubnarti is still striking.

Well it was only 66 individuals with heavy recent West Eurasian maternal ancestry.I wouldn't be surprised once more Sudanese Nubians or Cushitic Beja/Blemmyes graves are excavated that M1a would show up.We already have a couple Ancient Egyptians who were M1 (presumably M1a).

What I did notice is that even modern Sudan has far less M1a today, the Beja have 4% M1a vs Somali 15%, Amhara 16% & Beta Israel 19% but then again Sudan also has a strange phenomenon where the SSA maternal lineages clearly dominate. As shown with these christian period Nubians that as history progressed and major demographic changes happened they mostly probably affected the maternal lineages of the Sudanese including the Beja while the Horn never had to face such challenges which is why it was much easier to retain the more natural balance of MENA & SSA related lineages and keep lineages that were most likely lost in NE Africa.

For instance a lineage like M1, especially M1a is seen in Africa as Horn of African derived subclades where they are found, the same for lineages like L3x/i/f..... and if we remove all this L and M1 diversity and just think of it as "East African" that leaves us with only 4 of 38 real Eurasian lineages coming from the North with Pastoralists. Im not quite ready to buy this. I think there could be a long discussion about lineages like M1a who's diversity "originates in the Horn of Africa" vs these lineages originating in their northern counterparts and having diversity that simply retained by Horn Africans. M1a and how it related to AA lineages and diversity look South to North. But the paternal lineages look North to South. Anyway....

I think M1a was an indigenous hg maternal lineage of NE Africa with M1b being the NW African variant considering M1b was found in a early Neolithic Moroccan sample.M1 and probably N1 are early back-migrants from West Eurasia (via Levant) into North Africa.I think it's clear that M1a arrived in the Horn from the North and I think ancient dna from NE Africa (Egypt + N.Sudan) will prove it.

[davit]

Is M1 the only subclade of M whose distribution is primarily outside of South/Southeast/East Asia?

[beyoku]

I think M1a was an indigenous hg maternal lineage of NE Africa with M1b being the NW African variant considering M1b was found in a early Neolithic Moroccan sample.M1 and probably N1 are early back-migrants from West Eurasia (via Levant) into North Africa.I think it's clear that M1a arrived in the Horn from the North and I think ancient dna from NE Africa (Egypt + N.Sudan) will prove it.

I think this is the case too BUT, considering its age and what we would think of its Norther Diversity it surely doesn't mirror northern M35 diversity. Nothing has seemed to indicated an origin north of Egypt using modern/ancient samples.
That is why i think we just need to use different language when we describe these lineages that could be more indicative of its actual migration. If its true from M1a it could be true for some L lineages too, especially some restricted to the horn of Africa.

[ThaYamamoto]

A little OT but anyone know how common A and B lineages are in Sudanese Arabs?

[drobbah]

The Ja'alin carry 6% A with no B while a study of Sudanese Nubians I seen carry no A with 7% B