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Thread: R2a-M124 updates

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by indusnomad View Post
    Thanks! How do I find out my subclade?
    you literally share both haplogroups with me LOL!
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  3. #102
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    Haha yes my Y haplogroup is R2 & mt haplogroup is W1c. I guess we're related LOL

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by indusnomad View Post
    Thanks! How do I find out my subclade?
    You essentially have two options:

    1. Y-SNP testing with YSEQ - You can either get the R2-M479 Panel ($88 for panel and $6 for shipping) from YSEQ, which tests you positive for multiple SNPs under R2. In your case, they test for the following SNPs under L295:



    You can also test for individual SNPs under L295 for $18 each. The first SNP will also include $6 shipping however you can reuse your sample for subsequent SNPs and save the shipping fee.

    If there's a SNP under L295 you want to test that isn't available with them (i.e. one you see on the YFull tree but not the YSEQ tree), you can add one to their store for $1 if the SNP meets their selection criteria then test for it afterwards. This applies to panel and individual SNP testing.

    FTDNA also do SNP packs and individual SNPs however they're much more expensive and you have to purchase a Y-STR test first (their cheapest STR test is $58). Unless you want to be a part of their public database (which isn't even very good for South Asians anyway), it's really not worth the extra money.

    2. Y-DNA sequencing with FGC and interpretation with YFull - you can have your entire Y chromosome sequenced for $380 (including FGCAG18 coupon code and $35 shipping). I messaged an FGC representative, and he told me he could do slow shipping for $10, which would make the price $355 with slow shipping, but you need to ask this yourself to make sure. I think this test sequences your mtDNA but you would need to clarify this as well - they've done this in the past but it's best to check to make sure. Since this test is designed for the Y chromosome, your mtDNA results might not be completely correct (some people get 100% accurate results and others get a few missed bases), but at least it's a bonus. You could ask what coverage the mtDNA gets from this test on average. YFull also do a $49 interpretation service, where you upload your raw data and they analyse your Y-DNA and mtDNA data, and place you on their handy Y-tree and mt-Tree. For your Y-DNA, they'll find your STR values (over 780 different STRs according to their websites)

    This may seem like a silly choice when you look at the price, but it helps discover new SNPs that haven't been found yet, including SNPs that are unique to you and don't belong to any known sample under L295 yet. When other people in your subclade get tested and upload to YFull, new branches can be discovered around your subclade, which helps the L295 tree to grow.

    This also means that if a new SNP is discovered, you're automatically tested for it as scanning your entire Y-chromosome means you'll already have a result for that SNP. If you just do SNP testing with YSEQ and a new SNP around yours is found, then you'll have to purchase a test for it separately.

    If you don't want to front that amount of cash, then remember that sequencing is only getting cheaper over time, so you can wait for the price to go down before taking the plunge. Sequencing is the future of DNA testing, and as it becomes more widespread and efficient, that will drive the prices down, so the consumer ends up winning.

    One word of warning would be that if you've purchased Y-SNP testing and now you decide you want to get your Y-DNA sequenced, then your previous tests will be made redundant as all of the SNPs YSEQ tested you for are already going to be tested for when your entire Y chromosome gets scanned. If you're going to go for Y-SNP testing then bear this in mind in case you choose to get your Y-DNA sequenced further down the line.

    Again, FTDNA also do this service (Big Y-700, in reference to them testing you for 700 Y-STRs), but even on offer, it's around $508.99 including shipping. They interpret your data in the same way YFull does (finds SNPs, STRs and adds you to their Y-tree), so you don't need to get a YFull service, although I still recommend getting a YFull interpretation as well. Unlike YFull, FTDNA's database is exclusive to their customers, however for South Asians it's pretty underwhelming. They also filter out your mtDNA results before releasing them to you, so you would have to purchase their mtDNA sequencing service separately, which is around $149 on offer.

    EDIT: YFull does age estimation. Provided certain conditions are met, they can estimate roughly how old a subclade is. More information here.
    Last edited by aaronbee2010; 08-30-2019 at 09:15 PM.
    FTDNA: IN41220
    YFull: YF62636

    Maternal mtDNA novels: G6150A > C15433T > G207A, T2404C, C8898T, G9755A

    Other ancestral Y-DNA lines: Mothers Mothers Mothers Father: R1a-M417 (possibly R1a-Z93 > L657 > Y7)

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     indusnomad (08-31-2019)

  7. #104
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    R-F1092 - (Slovakia)

    Hi all,

    I've read the thread and I please bear in mind am very new to all of this. Recently, while in China, I tested with a Chinese company called 23mofang.com

    That said, I do not know how reliable their analysis is, however, it does not seem to be off the chart since I found out there are some people from E Slovakia, where I come from, with my haplogroup R2 - (F1092).

    As for the next chromosomal mutation in the tree - R-F1758 - the analysis says "Detected but unmatched chromosomal mutations", while for the SNPs(?) below it simply says "Undetected chromosomal mutation". - I do not know how to interpret this. Any idea?


    I am attaching the Y-DNA tree that is part of the analysis - (https://ibb.co/Nsm8w96)

    (By the way, my mtDNA is - H2b - if that helps)

    I decided to test with My heritage so I am waiting for the kit. They provide downloadable raw data and also I want to have that confirmed by two sources. Despite the Chinese 23mofang seems to use advanced technology, I am sceptical due to their focus on the East Asian market, so there's a chance their analysis is incorrect. I can use the results and upload it to FTDNA to get more insight and add more data into R2 tree.

    Has anyone heard of that company?

    Is there more insight into this haplogroup in Eastern part of Europe?

    Any more information and recommendations welcome.

    Thanks!
    P.

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  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabmany View Post
    Hi all,

    I've read the thread and I please bear in mind am very new to all of this. Recently, while in China, I tested with a Chinese company called 23mofang.com

    That said, I do not know how reliable their analysis is, however, it does not seem to be off the chart since I found out there are some people from E Slovakia, where I come from, with my haplogroup R2 - (F1092).

    As for the next chromosomal mutation in the tree - R-F1758 - the analysis says "Detected but unmatched chromosomal mutations", while for the SNPs(?) below it simply says "Undetected chromosomal mutation". - I do not know how to interpret this. Any idea?


    I am attaching the Y-DNA tree that is part of the analysis - (https://ibb.co/Nsm8w96)

    (By the way, my mtDNA is - H2b - if that helps)

    I decided to test with My heritage so I am waiting for the kit. They provide downloadable raw data and also I want to have that confirmed by two sources. Despite the Chinese 23mofang seems to use advanced technology, I am sceptical due to their focus on the East Asian market, so there's a chance their analysis is incorrect. I can use the results and upload it to FTDNA to get more insight and add more data into R2 tree.

    Has anyone heard of that company?

    Is there more insight into this haplogroup in Eastern part of Europe?

    Any more information and recommendations welcome.

    Thanks!
    P.
    Hello.

    The website is saying you're negative for the F1758 mutation. As you've alluded to, there are 4 Slovaks (and 2 other Eastern Europeans) on FTDNA's "R2-M124-WTY" project who are also F1092+, F1758-, who all appear to come under one cluster of people with a relatively recent common ancestor. Unfortunately, not all of them are on FTDNA's "R2 and all subclades" project (where I'm a co-administrator), unfortunately!

    View the results page here, and search for "003- (M479+, M124+, P267+, FGC13203+, FGC13192+, F1092+), (Max GD=6/37)". You can see if your surname matches one of theirs.

    It's hard to say when and how their F1092* (F1758-) made it's way into Eastern Europe, as they all seem to be pretty closely related (perhaps within the last 500 years) so F1092* could've entered Eastern Europe anywhere between 500-7500 years ago, and we can't narrow this further without more people under this Slovak cluster purchasing Y-DNA sequencing tests.

    By the way, MyHeritage only tests for a limited number of SNPs on the Y chromosome, as it's mainly geared towards autosomal DNA (in this aspect, MyHeritage is a fantastic test). You'll probably get less detail on this test than 23mofang, however the autosomal results from MyHeritage will still be very good for various purposes, so it's not like you wasted money, fortunately.

    If you want to verify specific SNPs, you can test individual Y-SNPs with YSEQ, however in your case, the F1092+, F1758- result 23mofang gave you is very consistent with the geography of other F1092+, F1758- Eastern European men, who are mostly Slovakian, just like yourself.

    Also, you can only upload autosomal results to FTDNA, not anything relating to the Y chromosome. Their Y-DNA database is exclusive for their customers, I'm afraid! The only way to "add" data to the R2 tree and make it grow is a Y-DNA sequence, which is an expensive ($350-500) option, although definitely worth the cost, as it's pretty much the last Y-DNA test you'll ever need to do, as your results can be continuously updated when new subclades are discovered, as more people under your cluster help grow the R2 branches around you. You're scanned for the majority of positions on the Y chromosome, which includes all known SNPs, as well as SNPs not yet discovered. You're also tested for 700+ STR's, which you can compare to the STR's of the men I mentioned above to see how close you are to men (and to future men in/around your cluster who purchase an STR test but not a sequence. If a new subclade is discovered, you can check your data for the SNPs in that subclade to see if you have them or not, without having to purchase those SNPs separately.

    Nice to see another fellow R2 on Anthrogenica. Quite a few have joined here recently, which is very nice to see
    FTDNA: IN41220
    YFull: YF62636

    Maternal mtDNA novels: G6150A > C15433T > G207A, T2404C, C8898T, G9755A

    Other ancestral Y-DNA lines: Mothers Mothers Mothers Father: R1a-M417 (possibly R1a-Z93 > L657 > Y7)

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbee2010 View Post
    Hello.

    The website is saying you're negative for the F1758 mutation. As you've alluded to, there are 4 Slovaks (and 2 other Eastern Europeans) on FTDNA's "R2-M124-WTY" project who are also F1092+, F1758-, who all appear to come under one cluster of people with a relatively recent common ancestor. Unfortunately, not all of them are on FTDNA's "R2 and all subclades" project (where I'm a co-administrator), unfortunately!

    View the results page here, and search for "003- (M479+, M124+, P267+, FGC13203+, FGC13192+, F1092+), (Max GD=6/37)". You can see if your surname matches one of theirs.

    It's hard to say when and how their F1092* (F1758-) made it's way into Eastern Europe, as they all seem to be pretty closely related (perhaps within the last 500 years) so F1092* could've entered Eastern Europe anywhere between 500-7500 years ago, and we can't narrow this further without more people under this Slovak cluster purchasing Y-DNA sequencing tests.

    By the way, MyHeritage only tests for a limited number of SNPs on the Y chromosome, as it's mainly geared towards autosomal DNA (in this aspect, MyHeritage is a fantastic test). You'll probably get less detail on this test than 23mofang, however the autosomal results from MyHeritage will still be very good for various purposes, so it's not like you wasted money, fortunately.

    If you want to verify specific SNPs, you can test individual Y-SNPs with YSEQ, however in your case, the F1092+, F1758- result 23mofang gave you is very consistent with the geography of other F1092+, F1758- Eastern European men, who are mostly Slovakian, just like yourself.

    Also, you can only upload autosomal results to FTDNA, not anything relating to the Y chromosome. Their Y-DNA database is exclusive for their customers, I'm afraid! The only way to "add" data to the R2 tree and make it grow is a Y-DNA sequence, which is an expensive ($350-500) option, although definitely worth the cost, as it's pretty much the last Y-DNA test you'll ever need to do, as your results can be continuously updated when new subclades are discovered, as more people under your cluster help grow the R2 branches around you. You're scanned for the majority of positions on the Y chromosome, which includes all known SNPs, as well as SNPs not yet discovered. You're also tested for 700+ STR's, which you can compare to the STR's of the men I mentioned above to see how close you are to men (and to future men in/around your cluster who purchase an STR test but not a sequence. If a new subclade is discovered, you can check your data for the SNPs in that subclade to see if you have them or not, without having to purchase those SNPs separately.

    Nice to see another fellow R2 on Anthrogenica. Quite a few have joined here recently, which is very nice to see
    Hi!

    Thanks for the exhaustive reply and the welcoming words!

    Indeed, it seems like the R2 tree has been proliferating recently.


    The company, 23mofang, provides quite an advanced analytics compared to other major company, however, their (rather poor) ethnicity estimate made me sceptical about the results:

    Europe 100%:

    Nordic 47.57%
    Southern Europe 32.07%
    British 20.35%

    I do not think I have any "British" ancestry whatsoever. At least I do not know how that would be possible. Though, I suppose that the ethnicity itself is more about the interpretation, and the Chinese company rather lacks the data on he European population to perfom a proper assessment.

    It's a shame that FTDNA allows only its customers to join the projects. I didn't order their test due to the fact that the company has no distribution centre in Europe and it takes a long time for the kit to arrive from the US, and I simply didn't want to wait 6-8 weeks for that.

    As for the R2 making its way to Eastern Slovakia, neither can I explain much of that. I belong to a recognised minority in Slovakia called Rusyn/Carpatho-Rusyn/Ruthenian ( They got their own group on FTDNA - https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...ho-rusyn/about). However, this is cultural and I don't think I can attribute any ethnical origin to the population group. This minority is often called Kurds of Europe, or even saw them being compared them to the Basques (due to the lack of their own nation state). The minority needs more investigation so I suppose hence the dedicated project on FTDNA website. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns). Here's a genetic study that I found and was done on the Ruthenians if you're interested to read on that. (http://faculty.gvsu.edu/nikitin/HumBiol_09.pdf)

    That said, The people matching my R-F1092 were clustered on the map in the Eastern Slovakia, but none of the surnames matches mine. However, due to the complexity of the history of that region (Hungarization, invasion of Turkic tribes etc.) the surnames could've been changed. What makes it more challenging for me is the fact that I have never met my paternal grandfather as he died before I was born so I cannot ask many questions.

    I will now await the results from MyHeritage and think further whether Full Y-DNA by FTDNA is something worth for me to invest in.

    If you have any advice where I could find the latest info or investigate further, I will be glad for any source you might be familiar with

  12. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabmany View Post
    Is there more insight into this haplogroup in Eastern part of Europe?
    Welcome aboard...

    The Slovakian branch seems rather interesting, because on the surface one would suspect of potential Jewish heritage, but that does not seem the case since the Jewish samples are F1758+ while the Slovakian ones are F1758-.

    Nevertheless, it's probably an ancestor that came to Europe long ago from the Middle East or Central Asia.

  13. #108
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    I7722 (Saidu_Sharif_o) calls (excluding no-calls):

    R2-Y1376:

    Z29272+ (1 derived read)
    Y1379+ (3 derived reads)

    R2-FGC49531:

    FGC49547- (2 ancestral reads)
    FGC49535- (1 ancestral read)
    FGC49530- (1 ancestral read)

    R2-Z29271:

    Z29271? (5 ancestral and 5 derived reads)

    R2-Y1383:

    Z29291- (1 ancestral read)
    Z29301- (1 ancestral read)
    Z29289- (1 ancestral read)
    Y1382- (1 derived read)
    Z6135- (5 ancestral and 1 derived reads)

    Final haplogroup designation: R2-Y1376* or R2-Z29271*

    Considering that YFull has 1 South Asian (IN-GJ) sample under R2-Z29271* and no samples under R2-Y1376*, I think it's more likely this sample belonged to R2-Z29271*.
    FTDNA: IN41220
    YFull: YF62636

    Maternal mtDNA novels: G6150A > C15433T > G207A, T2404C, C8898T, G9755A

    Other ancestral Y-DNA lines: Mothers Mothers Mothers Father: R1a-M417 (possibly R1a-Z93 > L657 > Y7)

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  15. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbee2010 View Post
    I7722 (Saidu_Sharif_o) calls (excluding no-calls):

    R2-Y1376:

    Z29272+ (1 derived read)
    Y1379+ (3 derived reads)

    R2-FGC49531:

    FGC49547- (2 ancestral reads)
    FGC49535- (1 ancestral read)
    FGC49530- (1 ancestral read)

    R2-Z29271:

    Z29271? (5 ancestral and 5 derived reads)

    R2-Y1383:

    Z29291- (1 ancestral read)
    Z29301- (1 ancestral read)
    Z29289- (1 ancestral read)
    Y1382- (1 derived read)
    Z6135- (5 ancestral and 1 derived reads)

    Final haplogroup designation: R2-Y1376* or R2-Z29271*

    Considering that YFull has 1 South Asian (IN-GJ) sample under R2-Z29271* and no samples under R2-Y1376*, I think it's more likely this sample belonged to R2-Z29271*.
    It's also worth mentioning the derived reads for Z29271 had better mapping quality, which makes it even more likely that I7722 was R2-Z29271*
    FTDNA: IN41220
    YFull: YF62636

    Maternal mtDNA novels: G6150A > C15433T > G207A, T2404C, C8898T, G9755A

    Other ancestral Y-DNA lines: Mothers Mothers Mothers Father: R1a-M417 (possibly R1a-Z93 > L657 > Y7)

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