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Thread: Genomic Insights into the Formation of Human Populations in East Asia[

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    What's this sample: 100.0 CHN_HMMH_MN?
    That's Haminmangha_MN.
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    What's this sample: 100.0 CHN_HMMH_MN?
    If I'm not confusing anything, then CHN_Amur_River_EN is Houtaomuga_EN or ZLNR_EN. And CHN_HMMH_MN is HaMinMangHa.

    But in general, I wanted to know the area of West Liao River is this Houtaomuga or not?


    The first is the “Transeurasian hypothesis”: the theory that languages of the Mongolic, Turkic, Tungusic, Koreanic, and Japonic families may descend from a proto-language associated with the expansion of early millet farmers around the West Liao River in northeast China. The study confirms a shared genetic link between present-day people speaking Transeurasian languages: they all have large proportions of ancestry from the deeply splitting Tianyuan-related lineage. However, this link dates to before farming expansions, as Mongolic, Turkic, and Tungusic speakers do not have the characteristic mixture of ancient lineages that is a signature of West Liao River farmers. However, West Liao River farmers do appear to be an excellent candidate for the primary source population for present-day Korean and Japanese people.
    Last edited by VladimirTaraskin; 02-23-2021 at 07:28 AM.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    That's Haminmangha_MN.
    Very interesting, many thanks. I wonder if it's possible to model kra001 based on CHN_HMMH_MN?

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  7. #14
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    Directly very bad. But through the intermediate nodes it turns out.

    Target: RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
    Distance: 17.0532% / 0.17053210
    74.2 CHN_Amur_River_EN
    25.8 RUS_Ust_Kyakhta

    Target: RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
    Distance: 5.1368% / 0.05136765
    100.0 RUS_Yakutia_Ymyiakhtakh_LN

    Target: RUS_Yakutia_Ymyiakhtakh_LN:N4b2
    Distance: 9.3193% / 0.09319273
    52.4 RUS_Cis-Baikal_EN
    47.6 RUS_Cis-Baikal_Glazkovo_N

    Target: RUS_Cis-Baikal_ENopovskij1
    Distance: 1.8223% / 0.01822338
    65.8 RUS_Trans-Baikal_N
    21.2 CHN_Amur_River_EN
    8.2 RUS_Yakutia_Meso
    4.4 RUS_Cis-Baikal_N
    0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

    Target: RUS_Trans-Baikal_N:brn003
    Distance: 3.5436% / 0.03543608
    84.2 CHN_Amur_River_EN
    6.2 CHN_Yumin_N
    4.8 CHN_HMMH_MN
    4.8 RUS_Ust_Kyakhta

    Target: RUS_Trans-Baikal_N:brn008
    Distance: 3.3291% / 0.03329095
    91.6 CHN_Amur_River_EN
    8.4 RUS_Ust_Kyakhta

    Target: RUS_Cis-Baikal_Glazkovo_N:irk022
    Distance: 6.4191% / 0.06419134
    52.2 RUS_Trans-Baikal_N
    22.2 RUS_Lokomotiv_N
    19.4 RUS_Tyumen_HG
    6.2 CHN_Amur_River_EN

    Target: RUS_Cis-Baikal_Glazkovo_N:irk030
    Distance: 3.9116% / 0.03911577
    44.0 RUS_Northern_Trans-Baikal_Meso
    21.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG
    16.2 MNG_North_N
    15.0 RUS_Trans-Baikal_N
    3.8 RUS_Lokomotiv_N
    Last edited by VladimirTaraskin; 02-23-2021 at 08:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    If I'm not confusing anything, then CHN_Amur_River_EN is Houtaomuga_EN or ZLNR_EN.
    CHN_Amur_River_EN:WQM4 and ZLNR-2 are from Zhalainuoer. Houtaomuga is a totally different site, and the samples from it are not in the G25 yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    Very interesting, many thanks. I wonder if it's possible to model kra001 based on CHN_HMMH_MN?
    I'm utterly overwhelmed by the amount of samples at the moment, so I'm spending a lot of time just trying to catalogue what we have available.
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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    CHN_Amur_River_EN:WQM4 and ZLNR-2 are from Zhalainuoer. Houtaomuga is a totally different site, and the samples from it are not in the G25 yet.



    I'm utterly overwhelmed by the amount of samples at the moment, so I'm spending a lot of time just trying to catalogue what we have available.
    Thanks. And you do not know M54A Houtaomuga_EN2 in G25 is not present?
    Sorry, got it.

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    If I'm not confusing anything, then CHN_Amur_River_EN is Houtaomuga_EN or ZLNR_EN. And CHN_HMMH_MN is HaMinMangHa.

    But in general, I wanted to know the area of West Liao River is this Houtaomuga or not?
    Houtaomuga is located about 25 km west of the Nen River and about 70 km northwest of that river's confluence with the Songhua River, in the Songnen Plain and on the southern fringe of the Amur River basin. (The Nen River is a tributary of the Songhua River, which in turn is a tributary of the Amur River.)

    Hamin Mangha, the site of the infamous "death house," is located between the Xinkai River and the Xiliao (West Liao) River in the northern part of the Liao River basin and approximately 220 km SSW of Houtaomuga.

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  15. #18
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    Target: RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
    Distance: 5.1368% / 0.05136765
    100.0 RUS_Yakutia_Ymyiakhtakh_LN

    Target: RUS_Yakutia_Ymyiakhtakh_LN:N4b2
    Distance: 9.3193% / 0.09319273
    52.4 RUS_Cis-Baikal_EN
    47.6 RUS_Cis-Baikal_Glazkovo_N

    Target: RUS_Cis-Baikal_EN
    Distance: 1.8223% / 0.01822338
    65.8 RUS_Trans-Baikal_N
    21.2 CHN_Amur_River_EN
    8.2 RUS_Yakutia_Meso
    4.4 RUS_Cis-Baikal_N
    0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N


    Target: RUS_Trans-Baikal_N:brn008
    Distance: 3.3291% / 0.03329095
    91.6 CHN_Amur_River_EN
    8.4 RUS_Ust_Kyakhta


    Target: CHN_Amur_River_EN
    Distance: 5.8543% / 0.05854263
    100.0 CHN_HMMH_MN

    Target: CHN_HMMH_MN
    Distance: 3.4923% / 0.03492291
    100.0 CHN_Yumin_N

    Target: CHN_Yumin_N
    Distance: 6.2974% / 0.06297415
    95.6 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    4.4 CHN_Tianyuan

    Target: CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    Distance: 4.1793% / 0.04179329
    47.6 CHN_Xiaogao_N
    45.8 CHN_Boshan_N
    6.4 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN
    0.2 CHN_Miaozigou_MN


    Apparently somewhere here there is a place of separation of N1a and N1b
    Last edited by VladimirTaraskin; 02-23-2021 at 11:14 AM.

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    Apparently somewhere here there is a place of separation of N1a and N1b
    In Finland we think of N1b/N1a2 as oriental and N1c/N1a1 as occidental. It seems like this is a reversal of the original trend with N1a2 leaning towards ANE west of lake Baikal and N1a1 instead having more broadly East Asian affinities east of it.

    Target: RUS_Yakutia_N:brn008 N-L708
    Distance: 12.3537% / 0.12353698
    95.6 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    4.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3

    Target: RUS_Shamanka_NA245 N-L666
    Distance: 11.1024% / 0.11102353
    92.0 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    8.0 RUS_AfontovaGora3

    The fits naturally get much worse for kra001 since there's so much North-Central Siberian drift from the genetic substrate but it seems to be in line with other estimates.

    Target: RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA:kra001
    Distance: 24.1983% / 0.24198279
    84.2 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    15.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3

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  19. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standardized Ape View Post
    In Finland we think of N1b/N1a2 as oriental and N1c/N1a1 as occidental. It seems like this is a reversal of the original trend with N1a2 leaning towards ANE west of lake Baikal and N1a1 instead having more broadly East Asian affinities east of it.

    Target: RUS_Yakutia_N:brn008 N-L708
    Distance: 12.3537% / 0.12353698
    95.6 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    4.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3

    Target: RUS_Shamanka_NA245 N-L666
    Distance: 11.1024% / 0.11102353
    92.0 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    8.0 RUS_AfontovaGora3

    The fits naturally get much worse for kra001 since there's so much North-Central Siberian drift from the genetic substrate but it seems to be in line with other estimates.

    Target: RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA:kra001
    Distance: 24.1983% / 0.24198279
    84.2 CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN
    15.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3
    In this regard, there is such an assumption. Excavations in the Barabinsk forest-steppe revealed a unique culture with ceramics from 6500 BC. The archaeologist Molodin named this culture Baraba. The pottery there is remarkably similar to that of the Ketoy culture. Flat-bottomed and ornamented under the grid. I always thought this was N1a1. But after the latest data, I think it's probably N1a2 - P43. In the area of 3500-4000, this community was absorbed by the Ust-Tatras culture. Then the Odino culture took its place. The date of the formation of the Baraba culture surprisingly coincides with the date of the formation of P43. But the Ust-Tartas culture may already be the L1026 culture.

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