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Thread: Genomic Insights into the Formation of Human Populations in East Asia[

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standardized Ape View Post
    In Finland we think of N1b/N1a2 as oriental and N1c/N1a1 as occidental. It seems like this is a reversal of the original trend with N1a2 leaning towards ANE west of lake Baikal and N1a1 instead having more broadly East Asian affinities east of it.
    It is obvious why Finns would tend to see things that way, but, in reality, the distribution of subclades of N-P43 is more closely correlated with current and historically recorded Uralic speakers than the distribution of N-Tat.

    The only non-Uralic-speaking samples that I recall have exhibited N-P43 as the most frequently observed clade of Y-DNA are Kharkov's sample of Kachin (Northern) Khakassians and Derenko's sample of Tofalar. (Derenko's sample of Khakassians contained equal percentages -- 28.3% each -- of R1a1 and N(xTat).) However, both those populations are very likely (or rather certain, at least as far as we can trust historical records) to descend in some part from former speakers of Uralic languages.

    N-Tat, on the other hand, is very frequent in the most populous pre-Russian ethnic groups in Siberia -- the Yakut and the Buryat, neither of which speaks a Uralic language.

    That does not necessarily preclude the possibility that the subclades of N-Tat that are common among present-day speakers of Finnic, Samic, and Baltic languages may have been spread to Fennoscandia and the Baltic by speakers of an ancient Uralic language.

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  3. #22
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    Where are the genotypes available for these Yakutian neolithic/mesolithic samples?
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Where are the genotypes available for these Yakutian neolithic/mesolithic samples?
    In Subject: West Siberian Hunter-gatherers and their descendants-Help me figure it all out post #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    In this regard, there is such an assumption. Excavations in the Barabinsk forest-steppe revealed a unique culture with ceramics from 6500 BC. The archaeologist Molodin named this culture Baraba. The pottery there is remarkably similar to that of the Ketoy culture. Flat-bottomed and ornamented under the grid. I always thought this was N1a1. But after the latest data, I think it's probably N1a2 - P43. In the area of 3500-4000, this community was absorbed by the Ust-Tatras culture. Then the Odino culture took its place. The date of the formation of the Baraba culture surprisingly coincides with the date of the formation of P43. But the Ust-Tartas culture may already be the L1026 culture.
    Are there any full-genome DNA from Baraba forest-steppe published? I haven't seen any yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    In Subject: West Siberian Hunter-gatherers and their descendants-Help me figure it all out post #283
    I'm looking for genotypes, not G25 coordinates.
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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    Are there any full-genome DNA from Baraba forest-steppe published? I haven't seen any yet.
    As far as I know, no, but something is being prepared. It seems that the samples were transferred to the Max Planck Institute there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    As far as I know, no, but something is being prepared. It seems that the samples were transferred to the Max Planck Institute there.
    Molodin has transferred samples to Max Planck? Where did you hear about this? As far as I can see his name doesn't appear in any aDNA publications, I wonder if he's developed a new relationship.
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

    " Cheddar man was an ugly brown dwarf ... I guess some people identify very strongly with their conquering aryan forefathers that the thought of having subhuman swarthy farmer blood running through their veins is absolutely appalling ... "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Molodin has transferred samples to Max Planck? Where did you hear about this? As far as I can see his name doesn't appear in any aDNA publications, I wonder if he's developed a new relationship.
    That's not correct. There are many publications with him that are about ancient DNA:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...520-010-0042-z
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0127182
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

    But yes, there is an issue with him. All these publications involve ancient DNA lab in Novosibirsk. It seems he sends all his samples into that lab. Unfortunately, due to lack of funds and equipment, they produce results which feel very out of place in 2020s. Like they started publishing Y-DNA STRs only in the last couple of years. They have hundreds of not yet published results, but as far as I know all of them are HVR of mtDNA and Y-DNA STRs.

    Fortunately other archaeologists from Russia do cooperate with foreign aDNA labs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    That's not correct. There are many publications with him that are about ancient DNA:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...520-010-0042-z
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0127182
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

    But yes, there is an issue with him. All these publications involve ancient DNA lab in Novosibirsk. It seems he sends all his samples into that lab. Unfortunately, due to lack of funds and equipment, they produce results which feel very out of place in 2020s. Like they started publishing Y-DNA STRs only in the last couple of years. They have hundreds of not yet published results, but as far as I know all of them are HVR of mtDNA and Y-DNA STRs.

    Fortunately other archaeologists from Russia do cooperate with foreign aDNA labs.
    Pilipenko works there, he recently spoke at an event and said that they themselves process samples of IA and later, and the most ancient samples were transferred to foreign laboratories. And the fact that this is Max Planck told me a man who lives in Baraba near the excavations. According to him, Pilipenko himself told him this.

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  17. #30
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    Ah, that's a good news.

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