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Thread: Genomic Insights into the Formation of Human Populations in East Asia[

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Hey Pribislav, you might be doing this anyway, but it would be super interesting if you could call the WLR samples later as well. I'm sure ybmpark, Ebizur, and others could chime in on the extent--if any--of uniparental matches between WLR and present-day Koreans and Japanese. My own suspicion is that O2b might be a very Japonic-specific marker with a later uniparental flux responsible for the arrival of Koreanic in the BA-IA, but just that this contribution of continental non-O2b y-haps to modern Koreans could have been quite small.
    I checked 18R21265 since it had the best coverage of all male samples, and I couldn't get anything reliable below F. I feared this would be the case since exome sequencing was used only for Wuzhuangguoliang samples, but I didn't expect it would be this bad. There's really no point trying other lower coverage samples.

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    I am sure that the "collaboration" is for Koreans to supply the samples they obtained from Mongolians and for Max Planck to do most of the analysis.
    In terms of the general technological aptitude, Koreans are a top notch; they do excell in whatever money is poured into like in fusion research and military technology etc.
    But they are also hampered by a sort of political correctness that has plagued them for 70 years.
    A top mathematical and scientific talent is socially encouraged to go into engineering because a small and poor country like Korea cannot afford to do pure science.
    That might have been a wise choice even 50 years ago but they still have that "small country complex" even after Korea has become rich.
    I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the mentality you see in certain developed countries.

    The field of Ancient DNA isn't practical like Engineering/Medicine; it can't solve problems in the real world or somehow be commercialized and made profitable, so from a purely materialistic perspective, why even bother with it?

    Compare that approach with China, which is investing money into upgrading and opening new aDNA labs with the knowledge that there isn't some immediate financial benefit to doing so, so the motivation there is very different.

    It will take some significant readjustment of priorities from South Korea and many other developed countries to establish competent local Ancient DNA research centers.

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  7. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Where is this rumour from, did the Kadeok island remains get sent to Max Planck? ...
    Yayul Chojae's forum had it. He appears to have read it actually. He even speculated that most of modern Koreans' D and C1a are from Japan rather than are remnants of this population.
    The same forum reported that samples(Kadeok Island mass grave ~ > 50?) were sent to Max Planck. I hope it was not just wishful thinking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2KCmeOT8o

    This is in Korean. He also said something about population turnover in Europe which should displease many in this forum.
    You can just look at the pictures.
    He also speaks in a thick Southeastern dialect accent. It(the real Kyongsang dialect, Park tries to speak standard Korean) sounds Japanese even to Koreans. Curious since Vovin thinks this region spoke Japonic as late as the 9th Century.

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  9. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I checked 18R21265 since it had the best coverage of all male samples, and I couldn't get anything reliable below F. I feared this would be the case since exome sequencing was used only for Wuzhuangguoliang samples, but I didn't expect it would be this bad. There's really no point trying other lower coverage samples.
    Since you seem to be working with the raw data itself, I really wonder how FTDNA got M2308+ for BK-1653 when you don't see it.
    Do you run a program to check all these SNPs instead of manually checking them one by one?
    There are 193 SNPs at F* level. Even additional confirmation at this level will be helpful in identifying BK-1653's lineage.
    And there are 28 SNPs from GHIJK to K*. Anything from here? none?
    Last edited by Moderator; 03-03-2021 at 02:44 AM. Reason: Terms of Service Violation (3.22) - Political tangent removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I checked 18R21265 since it had the best coverage of all male samples, and I couldn't get anything reliable below F. I feared this would be the case since exome sequencing was used only for Wuzhuangguoliang samples, but I didn't expect it would be this bad. There's really no point trying other lower coverage samples.
    WLR samples were sequenced using exome sequencing?? I thought only Wuzhuangguoliang was done with that pipeline.
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

    " A Basal Eurasian and an Aurignacian walk into a bar... "

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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    Yayul Chojae's forum had it. He appears to have read it actually. He even speculated that most of modern Koreans' D and C1a are from Japan rather than are remnants of this population.
    The same forum reported that samples(Kadeok Island mass grave ~ > 50?) were sent to Max Planck. I hope it was not just wishful thinking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2KCmeOT8o

    This is in Korean. He also said something about population turnover in Europe which should displease many in this forum.
    You can just look at the pictures.
    He also speaks in a thick Southeastern dialect accent. It(the real Kyongsang dialect, Park tries to speak standard Korean) sounds Japanese even to Koreans. Curious since Vovin thinks this region spoke Japonic as late as the 9th Century.
    Can you translate the annotations on the image at 33:54? Is this Wang's admixturegraph, or from an unpublished paper? Are there unpublished materials referred to here?
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

    " A Basal Eurasian and an Aurignacian walk into a bar... "

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  15. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    Yayul Chojae's forum had it. He appears to have read it actually. He even speculated that most of modern Koreans' D and C1a are from Japan rather than are remnants of this population.
    The same forum reported that samples(Kadeok Island mass grave ~ > 50?) were sent to Max Planck. I hope it was not just wishful thinking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2KCmeOT8o

    This is in Korean. He also said something about population turnover in Europe which should displease many in this forum.
    You can just look at the pictures.
    He also speaks in a thick Southeastern dialect accent. It(the real Kyongsang dialect, Park tries to speak standard Korean) sounds Japanese even to Koreans. Curious since Vovin thinks this region spoke Japonic as late as the 9th Century.
    Low hopes for this, but is a copy shareable anywhere?
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

    " A Basal Eurasian and an Aurignacian walk into a bar... "

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  17. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Can you translate the annotations on the image at 33:54? Is this Wang's admixturegraph, or from an unpublished paper? Are there unpublished materials referred to here?
    It is from his paper in 2020. I posted the link to that paper before but he had a few weird propositions so I did not discuss it any further. He thinks that Tianyuan forms a clade with Southern East Asians against Northern East Asians.
    On that graph Chinese and Koreans diverged 3900 years ago, and Koreans and Japanese about 2300 years ago.

    I just got a warning from mods to avoid political discussions but it is actually impossible to do so in this area.
    Political agenda run deep almost everywhere in this field.
    In Korea there is a popular desire to identify with the northern people.
    The primary reason is that it is the easiest way to distance itself from Chinese. But the West tends to see this as a sly way to share the glory of the likes of Mongols and Huns.
    As usual this is a grossly unfair treatment of Korean national sentiment by the West.
    There is also the "politcally correct" pressure to go in the opposite direction; Koreans should identify with the oppressed and invaded southern people.(PRC also has a similar political agenda which a few Chinese members complained already)
    Park Jonghwa is one of them if you follow his academic career but unlike others he is willing to change his position.
    The graph(from mid 2020 or earlier in terms of when it was written) had the north and south mixture for Koreans as 30 to 70.(the same when he proposed Devil's Gate + Taiwanese aborigines model for Koreans)
    But in this video(late 2020 or early 2021) he changed it to 50:50 probably after seeing the Chinese papers.

    He also ignored the admixture from Onge and if he takes it into account his simplistic cladogram involving Chinese-Koreans-Japanese fails.

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  19. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    Do you know if FTDNA adds only those who made BigY to its database, or all clients, including those who made Y-DNA12 tests ?

    For example, there is one person from Mongolia standing under P226 with the inscription "P-P226 and Downstream (Excluding other Letters)". Does this mean that it has been checked for all lower-level snips and is P226* ?
    Sorry, I somehow missed your post yesterday. If you're talking about FTDNA's Block tree, only those who had done Big-Y are being added there, so that also goes for that Mongolian guy. He indeed belongs to a rare clade directly below P226, and parallel to Q and R.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    WLR samples were sequenced using exome sequencing?? I thought only Wuzhuangguoliang was done with that pipeline.
    My bad, I thought you were speaking about Chinese samples from this paper since I'm checking that one now, totally overlooked the WLR part. From which paper are West Liao samples, Ning 2020? They are not exome sequenced, but I wasn't aware the BAMs are available.

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