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Thread: Is there Greek admix among Greek_Kos?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Yep,i think the Levant among the Greco-Roman world is connected with Imperial Rome situations.But there is a second option...that of Phoenicians or Jews.Hellenistic times as well when Jews started to moving out from the Levant.

    As for Pontic Greeks.They are mostly a combination of a south caucasus population(colchian/kartvelian) and bronze age anatolian group.Bronze Age anatolia lacks steppe DNA..as south caucasians do!!!!


    Target: Greek_Trabzon
    Distance: 0.9563% / 0.00956343
    40.2 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    38.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    10.4 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    7.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    2.8 RUS_Catacomb



    Target: Greek_Trabzon
    Distance: 1.1125% / 0.01112519
    43.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    40.0 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    7.0 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    6.6 Levant_Abel_IA
    3.0 RUS_Catacomb
    If you use the EBA samples from Arslantepe I think that the Levantine will vanish. It looks like eastern Turkey had some Semitic lineages(like E-CTS9608 found in Arslantepe) even before the Iron Age.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    If you use the EBA samples from Arslantepe I think that the Levantine will vanish. It looks like eastern Turkey had some Semitic lineages(like E-CTS9608 found in Arslantepe) even before the Iron Age.
    Arslantepe also devours up a decent amount of Hajji Firuz-like admixture-no idea why so few people use it. I mean, doesn't ancestry from that part of Anatolia make more sense than ancestry from Iran (for many Greeks and related populations, at least)?

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    If you use the EBA samples from Arslantepe I think that the Levantine will vanish. It looks like eastern Turkey had some Semitic lineages(like E-CTS9608 found in Arslantepe) even before the Iron Age.
    You are right but keep in mind that some individuals even with Arslantepe will require something more Levantine.Semitic lineages exist even among some of Pontic Greeks.Some J1 lineages etc.I hope we are going to see samples from Pontus and Eastern Anatolia in the future.Arslantepe is EBA and Malatya theoretically is CentralSouthEast Anatolia.Its closer to historical western Armenia.Actually between Cappadocia and Western Armenia.


    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25004
    Distance: 2.0920% / 0.02091961
    45.4 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    19.0 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    18.0 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    17.6 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA



    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25009
    Distance: 1.8619% / 0.01861865
    42.8 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    32.2 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
    15.0 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    8.8 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    1.2 RUS_Catacomb



    Target: MarcusUncle_scaled
    Distance: 1.9825% / 0.01982541
    44.2 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
    31.8 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    12.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    7.2 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    4.0 RUS_Catacomb



    Target: PonticGreek:13BA60
    Distance: 1.7581% / 0.01758060
    50.2 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    22.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    21.0 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
    6.0 Levant_Megiddo_IA



    Target: Ordu/Sanda/Surmene_scaled
    Distance: 2.2542% / 0.02254205
    63.0 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
    24.4 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    9.0 Levant_Megiddo_IA
    3.6 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2

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  6. #34
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    Greeks don't have any notable Levantine input, ranging from 1%-8%, that couldn't be explained as neighboring spillover or even historically if you follow the expansion of the Seleucids and then the Archbishopric of Antioch, which was a prominent part of Byzantium in the area. Of course, there was movement of groups such as the White-Syrians, but, obviously, not to the extent that would warrant some sort of big emigrational event that would turn Greeks into majority Levantines.

    Even Pontic Greeks, the "West Asian proper" group among the list, are majority Caucasians, and to a lesser extent Iranian_N (which, could be argued, is a sister-component to the Caucasian) but not Levantine.

    Ouliers, who obviously had some Levantine ancestor down the line, whether Semitic, Syrian, or other, exist among all groups (i.e. the last name "Δαμάσκος" - "Damaskos" making brief appearances among Greek Macedonians, among others) and how could it be otherwise, once one takes into account the border of the Byzantine and Ottoman Empire, and the strong Christian tradition of the area; but to imply a large scale population even, I rather doubt it.
    Last edited by dosas; 02-24-2021 at 06:10 AM.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bovefex View Post
    Is that high, low or average for a group that scores little Steppe?

    The Pontic Greeks with R1b I've seen seem to be L584 clades, which could indicate that they have Armenian paternal ancestry.
    Last edited by dosas; 02-24-2021 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Sorry for the double post, my browser messed up.

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    Ouliers, who obviously had some Levantine ancestor down the line, whether Semitic, Syrian, or other, exist among all groups (i.e. the last name "Δαμάσκος" - "Damaskos" making brief appearances among Greek Macedonians, among others) and how could it be otherwise, once one takes into account the border of the Byzantine and Ottoman Empire, and the strong Christian tradition of the area; but to imply a large scale population even, I rather doubt it.
    I understand the reasoning and from a logical point of view it has to be some Levantine ancestry for those outliers (like me). What I donīt understand is how this ancestry appeared. I mean, I have nearly 20% distinctive Levantine ancestry from modern (rest is pontic greek) and same percentage for ancient, I donīt know of anything Levantine in my known and recent history and also I donīt have any Levantine match in my long match list. Could it be another explanation than early hellenization? But still 20%, thatīs a lot, isnīt it?
    Also, my haplogroup is L-M20, which is a native black sea line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panos View Post
    I understand the reasoning and from a logical point of view it has to be some Levantine ancestry for those outliers (like me). What I donīt understand is how this ancestry appeared. I mean, I have nearly 20% distinctive Levantine ancestry from modern (rest is pontic greek) and same percentage for ancient, I donīt know of anything Levantine in my known and recent history and also I donīt have any Levantine match in my long match list. Could it be another explanation than early hellenization? But still 20%, thatīs a lot, isnīt it?
    Also, my haplogroup is L-M20, which is a native black sea line.

    There was colonization of Western Pontus by Cappadocians, who in some literal sources are mentioned as White Syrians, I've mentioned it before and I am saying it again, because I feel it's falling on deaf areas. This process started with the Seleucids who had had White Syrian mercenary corps and is continuing all the way up to the Macedonian dynasty and Basil II, who use them as colonists. Also, small %s of Levantine are carried by Iranics and Caucasians in the area, who they, themselves, also have it as a spillover from the neighboring Syrian/Levantine themes/kingdoms, that's before taking into account the various Jewish communities of Caucasus and Mesopotamia, who were also part of the afore-mentioned empires.

    I really don't understand what the big deal is, one would think that you discovered you are part Japanese or Amazonian or something, no offense, friend.
    Last edited by dosas; 02-24-2021 at 10:29 AM.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    There was colonization of Western Pontus by Cappadocians, who in some literal sources are mentioned as White Syrians, I've mentioned it before and I am saying it again, because I feel it's falling on deaf areas. This process started with the Seleucids who had had White Syrian mercenary corps and is continuing all the way up to the Macedonian dynasty and Basil II, who use them as colonists. Also, small %s of Levantine are carried by Iranics and Caucasians in the area, who they, themselves, also have it as a spillover from the neighboring Syrian/Levantine themes/kingdoms, that's before taking into account the various Jewish communities of Caucasus and Mesopotamia, who were also part of the afore-mentioned empires.

    I really don't understand what the big deal is, one would think that you discovered you are part Japanese or Amazonian or something, no offense, friend.
    No, itīs not a big deal at all. As I wrote before, I donīt have any obvious Levantine match at all so this is not so much about discovering something of great importance, but only curiousity. It was just that I had quite a bit more Levant than the average Greek Trabzon sample, that was the reason I wondered. Thanks for the explanation from a historical point of view.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panos View Post
    No, itīs not a big deal at all. As I wrote before, I donīt have any obvious Levantine match at all so this is not so much about discovering something of great importance, but only curiousity. It was just that I had quite a bit more Levant than the average Greek Trabzon sample, that was the reason I wondered. Thanks for the explanation from a historical point of view.
    Couldn't it also simply be random inheritance through the generations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bovefex View Post
    Couldn't it also simply be random inheritance through the generations?
    Both the Greek and Turkish Trabzon samples so far showing This admixture(thought Some individuals totally lack it). Witch means it exists For a long period. Might be native since the LBA, IA period or might arrived with Hellenistic and Roman/Byzantine times. As Helves mention, If you use the arlantepe refrences usually you got decent fits.Maybe the genetics There were similar to Medin. The bronze Age Anatolian samples From isparta and Cappadocia/Central Anatolia Are Not so Levantine shifted.

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