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Thread: Is there Greek admix among Greek_Kos?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bovefex View Post
    Couldn't it also simply be random inheritance through the generations?
    Look also what populations are the closest to these refrences:

    Distance to: TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART011
    0.03850940 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.03868291 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.03989795 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04120144 Greek_Trabzon
    0.04151803 Armenian
    0.04753150 Cypriot
    0.04785536 Armenian_Hemsheni
    0.04824721 Druze
    0.04836117 Assyrian
    0.04878054 Iraqi_Jew
    0.04979341 Georgian_Jew
    0.05078985 Lebanese_Druze
    0.05279321 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05654352 Iranian_Jew
    0.05753225 Syrian_Jew
    0.05782855 Mountain_Jew
    0.05807318 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.05848866 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.05861340 Karaite_Egypt
    0.05924505 Georgian_Laz
    0.06048295 Greek_Kos
    0.06092764 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.06497502 Romaniote_Jew
    0.06626924 Samaritan
    0.06654037 Udi

    Distance to: TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART010
    0.04501757 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.04523896 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.04609933 Greek_Trabzon
    0.04645752 Armenian
    0.04900178 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.05209684 Iraqi_Jew
    0.05236110 Cypriot
    0.05400098 Lebanese_Druze
    0.05438571 Druze
    0.05448136 Assyrian
    0.05453346 Armenian_Hemsheni
    0.05613299 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05732618 Georgian_Jew
    0.05858260 Karaite_Egypt
    0.05936351 Iranian_Jew
    0.06007304 Syrian_Jew
    0.06353186 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.06354835 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.06357345 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.06381073 Georgian_Laz
    0.06533471 Mountain_Jew
    0.06728205 Samaritan
    0.06799042 Greek_Kos
    0.06952526 Romaniote_Jew
    0.07362853 Udi

    Distance to: TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART009
    0.04370945 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04574659 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.04649195 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.04653859 Druze
    0.04662327 Armenian
    0.04787618 Cypriot
    0.04870463 Greek_Trabzon
    0.04876373 Lebanese_Christian
    0.04907191 Assyrian
    0.04940139 Lebanese_Druze
    0.05060200 Georgian_Jew
    0.05119704 Iraqi_Jew
    0.05140774 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.05287176 Armenian_Hemsheni
    0.05776623 Mountain_Jew
    0.05831415 Iranian_Jew
    0.05879594 Syrian_Jew
    0.05929859 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.06032547 Karaite_Egypt
    0.06243609 Greek_Kos
    0.06270503 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.06497927 Georgian_Laz
    0.06627605 Romaniote_Jew
    0.06640199 Samaritan
    0.06898388 Udi

    Distance to: TUR_Arslantepe_EBA:ART001
    0.03941916 Lebanese_Christian
    0.04210865 Samaritan
    0.04255271 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.04678777 Druze
    0.04872386 Lebanese_Druze
    0.04932728 Iraqi_Jew
    0.05037979 Cypriot
    0.05265219 Karaite_Egypt
    0.05692461 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.06037126 Syrian_Jew
    0.06317892 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.06525373 Iranian_Jew
    0.06560898 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.06587235 Romaniote_Jew
    0.06756953 Assyrian
    0.06862789 Armenian
    0.06868050 Georgian_Jew
    0.07006656 Tunisian_Jew
    0.07060551 Mountain_Jew
    0.07148519 Syrian
    0.07187171 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.07259815 Jordanian
    0.07261046 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.07357494 Libyan_Jew
    0.07377062 Palestinian



    Distance to: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2206
    0.04518609 Cypriot
    0.04692945 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04924913 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.05322317 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.05341040 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05422837 Druze
    0.05580093 Romaniote_Jew
    0.05607840 Greek_Kos
    0.05664643 Lebanese_Druze
    0.05880462 Syrian_Jew
    0.06016623 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.06285274 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.06383717 Karaite_Egypt
    0.06412934 Sephardic_Jew
    0.06526097 Italian_Jew
    0.06538360 Greek_Trabzon
    0.06629254 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.06634092 Iraqi_Jew
    0.06641684 Armenian
    0.06810899 Greek_Crete
    0.06853184 Samaritan
    0.06945487 Italian_Calabria
    0.07098462 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.07113496 Georgian_Jew
    0.07149327 Assyrian

    Distance to: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2205
    0.04438225 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04616091 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.04792895 Cypriot
    0.05437207 Druze
    0.05464243 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.05634501 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05667915 Greek_Kos
    0.05718807 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.05791292 Greek_Trabzon
    0.05792393 Lebanese_Druze
    0.06063253 Armenian
    0.06085968 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.06125286 Romaniote_Jew
    0.06185659 Syrian_Jew
    0.06238284 Iraqi_Jew
    0.06377944 Karaite_Egypt
    0.06504810 Georgian_Jew
    0.06600178 Assyrian
    0.06692442 Armenian_Hemsheni
    0.06748726 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.06966086 Greek_Crete
    0.07000931 Samaritan
    0.07118775 Sephardic_Jew
    0.07143700 Italian_Jew
    0.07204678 Iranian_Jew

    Distance to: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2203
    0.03733657 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.03803496 Greek_Kos
    0.04016605 Cypriot
    0.04052843 Romaniote_Jew
    0.04443807 Italian_Jew
    0.04602073 Sephardic_Jew
    0.04673225 Italian_Calabria
    0.04751484 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04828320 Greek_Crete
    0.04886864 Italian_Campania
    0.04925350 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.05166567 Syrian_Jew
    0.05198329 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.05278714 Italian_Basilicata
    0.05302856 Druze
    0.05424811 Sicilian_East
    0.05450400 Italian_Apulia
    0.05527376 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05630510 Maltese
    0.05681556 Lebanese_Druze
    0.05862168 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.05932425 Tunisian_Jew
    0.05946841 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.05956277 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.05976353 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour

    Distance to: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA:MA2200
    0.03595863 Cypriot
    0.03886712 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.03985510 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.04271519 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.04637530 Greek_Kos
    0.04724084 Romaniote_Jew
    0.04769902 Druze
    0.04844337 Lebanese_Christian
    0.04873904 Syrian_Jew
    0.04937439 Lebanese_Druze
    0.05248790 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.05323074 Karaite_Egypt
    0.05424804 Sephardic_Jew
    0.05492731 Greek_Trabzon
    0.05678284 Italian_Jew
    0.05719082 Greek_Crete
    0.05755540 Armenian
    0.05775044 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.05782855 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.05958617 Italian_Calabria
    0.05985025 Iraqi_Jew
    0.06227284 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.06336908 Tunisian_Jew
    0.06396056 Italian_Campania
    0.06453640 Georgian_Jew



    Distance to: TUR_Isparta_EBA:I2683
    0.04443686 Cypriot
    0.04595274 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04785397 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.04996829 Greek_Kos
    0.05008690 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.05526985 Romaniote_Jew
    0.05673334 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05841250 Druze
    0.06051244 Syrian_Jew
    0.06119496 Lebanese_Druze
    0.06165125 Sephardic_Jew
    0.06206822 Greek_Crete
    0.06253529 Italian_Jew
    0.06284912 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.06287333 Italian_Calabria
    0.06381616 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.06617795 Italian_Campania
    0.06635254 Karaite_Egypt
    0.06661930 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.06710290 Greek_Trabzon
    0.06925160 Armenian
    0.06993579 Italian_Basilicata
    0.07047205 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.07066648 Iraqi_Jew
    0.07132512 Italian_Apulia

    Distance to: TUR_Isparta_EBA:I2499
    0.04491730 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04912515 Cypriot
    0.04959220 Greek_Kos
    0.05077635 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.05245329 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.05774480 Druze
    0.05900955 Lebanese_Christian
    0.05975659 Romaniote_Jew
    0.06048553 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.06174812 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.06210882 Lebanese_Druze
    0.06291344 Syrian_Jew
    0.06347414 Greek_Crete
    0.06617274 Italian_Calabria
    0.06640935 Italian_Jew
    0.06752434 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.06755740 Sephardic_Jew
    0.06760849 Armenian
    0.06807543 Greek_Trabzon
    0.06883496 Italian_Campania
    0.06966549 Georgian_Jew
    0.07049247 Assyrian
    0.07076334 Iraqi_Jew
    0.07113423 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.07142935 Karaite_Egypt

    Distance to: TUR_Isparta_EBA:I2495
    0.04907750 Greek_Kos
    0.05045765 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.05073690 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.05211291 Cypriot
    0.05822784 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.05903512 Romaniote_Jew
    0.06185655 Greek_Crete
    0.06261335 Italian_Calabria
    0.06479533 Italian_Campania
    0.06493157 Italian_Jew
    0.06578817 Druze
    0.06581335 Lebanese_Christian
    0.06708511 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.06741323 Sephardic_Jew
    0.06764611 Italian_Basilicata
    0.06806339 Syrian_Jew
    0.06936764 Italian_Apulia
    0.06973996 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.06984788 Lebanese_Druze
    0.07054307 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.07166730 Greek_Izmir
    0.07259356 Sicilian_East
    0.07438226 Greek_Trabzon
    0.07474719 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.07516282 Maltese

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  3. #42
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    I'm fairly certain based on G25 runs that even central Anatolian/Cappadocian Greeks have some legitimate Greek ancestry, let alone Greeks from the islands.

    Target: Greek_Trabzon
    Distance: 0.8827% / 0.00882659
    75.6 Georgian_Laz
    13.2 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    11.2 Greek_Crete

    Target: Greek_Kos
    Distance: 0.1108% / 0.00110808
    77.4 Greek_Crete
    22.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA

    Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
    Distance: 0.7062% / 0.00706179
    43.4 Greek_Crete
    30.6 Georgian_Laz
    26.0 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA

    Target: Greek_Cappadocia
    Distance: 1.2017% / 0.01201741
    43.2 Greek_Crete
    33.4 Georgian_Laz
    23.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    Last edited by Cynic; 05-06-2021 at 11:29 PM. Reason: not mainland Greece

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    I'm fairly certain based on G25 runs that even central Anatolian/Cappadocian Greeks have some legitimate Greek ancestry from mainland Greece, let alone Greeks from the islands.

    Target: Greek_Trabzon
    Distance: 0.8827% / 0.00882659
    75.6 Georgian_Laz
    13.2 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    11.2 Greek_Crete

    Target: Greek_Kos
    Distance: 0.1108% / 0.00110808
    77.4 Greek_Crete
    22.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA

    Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
    Distance: 0.7062% / 0.00706179
    43.4 Greek_Crete
    30.6 Georgian_Laz
    26.0 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA

    Target: Greek_Cappadocia
    Distance: 1.2017% / 0.01201741
    43.2 Greek_Crete
    33.4 Georgian_Laz
    23.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    They have somewhere 10-12% steppe dna. We cant say For sure from where it Is coming From. It Is Def post-bronze Age. Might be from IA, Hellenistic or Roman-Byzantine times.

  6. #44
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    I think looking at the most recent Greek paper dealing with Greek samples from the cycladic and helladic periods, it shows that much of the Aegean during the formation of the Greek identity was Anatolian with some iranic/caucasian. It was later on that Steppe was introduced to that area by a people who were Anatolian and steppe mixed. To try and differentiate between Anatolian and ancient Greek is really difficult if not impossible at the moment. But if it's western Anatolian that ended contributing to the Anatolian in Greek islanders then it really isn't anything foreign ie non Greek. I think there's too much emphasis on steppe since steppe is found in plenty of non European areas and Europeans like the Greeks would have brought more than just steppe admixture with them. Steppe can be a good indicator of Greek presence though.

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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander87 View Post
    I think looking at the most recent Greek paper dealing with Greek samples from the cycladic and helladic periods, it shows that much of the Aegean during the formation of the Greek identity was Anatolian with some iranic/caucasian. It was later on that Steppe was introduced to that area by a people who were Anatolian and steppe mixed. To try and differentiate between Anatolian and ancient Greek is really difficult if not impossible at the moment. But if it's western Anatolian that ended contributing to the Anatolian in Greek islanders then it really isn't anything foreign ie non Greek. I think there's too much emphasis on steppe since steppe is found in plenty of non European areas and Europeans like the Greeks would have brought more than just steppe admixture with them. Steppe can be a good indicator of Greek presence though.
    Modern Greek Islanders require extra anatolian admixture compared to what their Greek(Minoans/Myceneans) forefathers had.The samples of the study showing a higher ratio of CHG/Iran N compared to Helladic Greece(witch is very EEF shifted). So it seems the Cycladic, Minoan and Aegean civilizations affected much more more from anatolia/caucasus compared to the mainland Greece. Ofc the ratios of CHG/Ira N were not huge.. We are talking for somewhere 8-12% of their autosomal. The point about Greek islanders is that they are mixed with Levantine folks. This Levant admixture is def post bronze age IMO and it migh arrived quite later. Ofc we need more samples but this imperial Rome admixture seems to existed among to many citizens of the Roman empire.

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander87 View Post
    I think looking at the most recent Greek paper dealing with Greek samples from the cycladic and helladic periods, it shows that much of the Aegean during the formation of the Greek identity was Anatolian with some iranic/caucasian. It was later on that Steppe was introduced to that area by a people who were Anatolian and steppe mixed. To try and differentiate between Anatolian and ancient Greek is really difficult if not impossible at the moment. But if it's western Anatolian that ended contributing to the Anatolian in Greek islanders then it really isn't anything foreign ie non Greek. I think there's too much emphasis on steppe since steppe is found in plenty of non European areas and Europeans like the Greeks would have brought more than just steppe admixture with them. Steppe can be a good indicator of Greek presence though.
    Modern Greek Islanders require extra anatolian admixture compared to what their Greek(Minoans/Myceneans) forefathers had.The samples of the study showing a higher ratio of CHG/Iran N compared to Helladic Greece(witch is very EEF shifted). So it seems the Cycladic, Minoan and Aegean civilizations affected much more more from anatolia/caucasus compared to the mainland Greece. Ofc the ratios of CHG/Ira N were not huge.. We are talking for somewhere 8-12% of their autosomal. The point about Greek islanders is that they are mixed with Levantine folks. This Levant admixture is def post bronze age IMO and it migh arrived quite later. Ofc we need more samples but this imperial Rome admixture seems to existed among to many citizens of the Roman empire.

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  12. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Modern Greek Islanders require extra anatolian admixture compared to what their Greek(Minoans/Myceneans) forefathers had.The samples of the study showing a higher ratio of CHG/Iran N compared to Helladic Greece(witch is very EEF shifted). So it seems the Cycladic, Minoan and Aegean civilizations affected much more more from anatolia/caucasus compared to the mainland Greece. Ofc the ratios of CHG/Ira N were not huge.. We are talking for somewhere 8-12% of their autosomal. The point about Greek islanders is that they are mixed with Levantine folks. This Levant admixture is def post bronze age IMO and it migh arrived quite later. Ofc we need more samples but this imperial Rome admixture seems to existed among to many citizens of the Roman empire.
    Don't they have kinda bit more Yamnaya than the Mycenaeans?

    And yeah Mycenaeans look like an admix event between Helladic MBA and CHG-influenced local Greek farmers. Helladic BA look like they are as of we can describe them as a Northern Balkan tribe (heavy EEF + heavy MBASteppes).
    Last edited by SilkRoad; 05-07-2021 at 12:51 PM.

  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Don't they have kinda bit more Yamnaya than the Mycenaeans?

    And yeah Mycenaeans look like an admix event between Helladic MBA and CHG-influenced local Greek farmers. Helladic BA look like they are as of we can describe them as a Northern Balkan tribe (heavy EEF + heavy Steppes).
    In who exactly are you refered to? Modern Greeks are Ofc more steppe admixed. But we dont know exactly the source yet. It seems they have a balto-slavic drift but it Is very likely to received more steppe during Hellenistic or Roman times as Well. The rest are exactly as you mention. Myceneans were helladic people(high EEF) that received Anatolian admixture from Aegean/Anatolian West Coast And the Steppe related admixture Witch still remains a mystery If it was Yamnaya/Catacomb(R1b) or Corded/Sintasta/Bambyno(R1a).

  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    In who exactly are you refered to? Modern Greeks are Ofc more steppe admixed. But we dont know exactly the source yet. It seems they have a balto-slavic drift but it Is very likely to received more steppe during Hellenistic or Roman times as Well. The rest are exactly as you mention. Myceneans were helladic people(high EEF) that received Anatolian admixture from Aegean/Anatolian West Coast And the Steppe related admixture Witch still remains a mystery If it was Yamnaya/Catacomb(R1b) or Corded/Sintasta/Bambyno(R1a).
    Yes, I was referring to modern Greek islanders* aforementioned.

  15. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes, I was referring to modern Greek islanders* aforementioned.
    Their steppe ratios Are Not That high I would say. Dodecanese have the lowest steppe of all if i am not mistaken. Cretans have somewhere 20%.Its the Cyclades And north Aegean islanders who are more steppe admixed. These islands affected much more from mainland invasions And migrations.

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