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Thread: Is it worth me doing Big Y-700?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-V View Post
    There are endless debates about comparisons between tests because aligners and quality criteria differ between the companies, but (very) early data on the WGS400 test says it has slightly higher coverage than the Big Y700; about 7% more on an apples-to-apples comparison (Y-DNA Warehouse).

    If we had the money, the best option really is testing with multiple companies so you get the combined results of several different approaches but most of us struggle just to pay for one. If you're in that boat too, at least as of right now since the WGS400 is also about US$150 cheaper (including BAM file) at non-sale prices just as a testing option it is more attractive.

    The usual counter in FTDNA's favor is the larger size of their matching database, but that value depends a lot on what part of the world you're from since all testing databases are weighted more heavily to the English-speaking countries of European descent. In your case when I look at the FTDNA haplotree (at J-FT24324 which is their equivalent to J-Y62635) I see that they have three testers; an Afghan, a Bahrani, and a Kuwaiti. Presumably the Bahrani is the same tester as the one under YFull and I would assume the other tester under these branches in YFull is NOT in the FTDNA database (since he shows as Pakistani) unless someone is playing games with their country flags across the two databases.

    Because they have 3 testers where YFull has 2, FTDNA have been able to put a little more definition on these branches, they show all three of their testers under J-FT19403 and then the two from Bahrain and Kuwait split immediately off into a separate haplogroup under J-FT14578. Those two then share another 18 SNPs until their common ancestor who is still likely more than 600 years ago at a rough guess.

    Anyway so YFull and FTDNA have a few different testers but it's not an order of magnitude difference on the branching. If the choice was just based on matches then FTDNA has a tiny edge there, but that could change at any time of course too if any of the other FTDNA testers decided to upload to YFull or new testers come along. Again ideally you'd want to have a test in both databases for comparison with every match, but that's not always feasible. You could also track down the two guys from Bahrain and Afghanistan and pay for their BAM files to provide to YFull but in total that option comes out at about the same price as a test.
    Thanks, this is exactly why I am in two minds right now. I was initially inclined towards FTDNA because I thought I'll have more chance of getting a closer match, but it seems the difference is really miniscule at the moment. Hmmm...I could get the Y-700 and still transfer my data to YFull right? I'll just have to pay more to get the BAM file I presume.

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     JMcB (02-25-2021)

  3. #12
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    U7a3a
    Y-DNA (M)
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    England United Kingdom India Punjab India
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave-V View Post
    There are endless debates about comparisons between tests because aligners and quality criteria differ between the companies, but (very) early data on the WGS400 test says it has slightly higher coverage than the Big Y700; about 7% more on an apples-to-apples comparison (Y-DNA Warehouse).

    If we had the money, the best option really is testing with multiple companies so you get the combined results of several different approaches but most of us struggle just to pay for one. If you're in that boat too, at least as of right now since the WGS400 is also about US$150 cheaper (including BAM file) at non-sale prices just as a testing option it is more attractive.

    The usual counter in FTDNA's favor is the larger size of their matching database, but that value depends a lot on what part of the world you're from since all testing databases are weighted more heavily to the English-speaking countries of European descent. In your case when I look at the FTDNA haplotree (at J-FT24324 which is their equivalent to J-Y62635) I see that they have three testers; an Afghan, a Bahrani, and a Kuwaiti. Presumably the Bahrani is the same tester as the one under YFull and I would assume the other tester under these branches in YFull is NOT in the FTDNA database (since he shows as Pakistani) unless someone is playing games with their country flags across the two databases.

    Because they have 3 testers where YFull has 2, FTDNA have been able to put a little more definition on these branches, they show all three of their testers under J-FT19403 and then the two from Bahrain and Kuwait split immediately off into a separate haplogroup under J-FT14578. Those two then share another 18 SNPs until their common ancestor who is still likely more than 600 years ago at a rough guess.

    Anyway so YFull and FTDNA have a few different testers but it's not an order of magnitude difference on the branching. If the choice was just based on matches then FTDNA has a tiny edge there, but that could change at any time of course too if any of the other FTDNA testers decided to upload to YFull or new testers come along. Again ideally you'd want to have a test in both databases for comparison with every match, but that's not always feasible. You could also track down the two guys from Bahrain and Afghanistan and pay for their BAM files to provide to YFull but in total that option comes out at about the same price as a test.
    It's worth mentioning that the WGS400 file analysed on Y-DNA Warehouse has 50x mapped coverage, whereas only the 45 GBase (15x) WGS400 is currently for sale from YSEQ, although one of the co-owners has mentioned the following:

    We may offer higher coverage versions in the future, but for now we try to serve as many customers as fast as possible.
    In this sense, a customer of the 15x WGS400 won't get the same mileage (particularly in terms of Y-STR resolution) as the 50x WGS400 whose results are showcased by YSEQ (inc. Y-DNA Warehouse and YFull statistics).

    It would be interesting to see how well 15x WGS400 samples perform in the near future but until then it's hard to say exactly how well those results will compare to a standard 30x 150bp WGS or a Big Y-700.
    YFull: YF72440 (FTDNA - IN41220)

    Ancestral Haplos (Punjabi Jatt):
    * Father: R2-M479 > M124 > M9710 > V1180 > SK2142 > Y1379 > Y1383 > Y154920 (xZ6135) - M5a1a-G9064A (185G)
    * Maternal Uncle: R1b-M343 > M269 > Z2103 > Z2109 > Y14416 > Y35099 > Y84821 - U7a3a-A9852G > G6150A > C15433T
    * MGMs MGF: R1a-Z93 > Y7 - ?

    Hidden Content

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     AlluGobi (02-25-2021),  Dave-V (02-26-2021),  Jatt1 (02-25-2021)

  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlluGobi View Post
    Thanks, this is exactly why I am in two minds right now. I was initially inclined towards FTDNA because I thought I'll have more chance of getting a closer match, but it seems the difference is really miniscule at the moment. Hmmm...I could get the Y-700 and still transfer my data to YFull right? I'll just have to pay more to get the BAM file I presume.
    As you are a south Asian your family most likely know their family history going back to a few hundred years, most Hindus, Sikh and recent converts to Christianity or Islam etc. should be able to find their roots at places like Haridwar, Pandits there have records. https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...-death-2266907 .

    https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en...orical_Records

    https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en...iew_the_Images

    https://yadgaartrust.com/ancestors-panday-records/

    https://genealogysstar.blogspot.com/...1194-2012.html

    https://www.familysearch.org/search/...7930/waypoints

    I think best option for you is a WGS as it will be cheaper and also gives you yDNA, mtDNA and autosomal and you can register at YFULL, and also at DNA warehouse for free, this is run by genetic experts they already have an extensive R1b tree and are building for other haplogroups. Please consult aaronbee2010 as he knows better about your WGS options. https://ydna-warehouse.org/coverage....tp3ahfx2xgyV54
    Last edited by Jatt1; 02-25-2021 at 11:06 PM.

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     AlluGobi (02-26-2021)

  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlluGobi View Post
    Thanks, this is exactly why I am in two minds right now. I was initially inclined towards FTDNA because I thought I'll have more chance of getting a closer match, but it seems the difference is really miniscule at the moment. Hmmm...I could get the Y-700 and still transfer my data to YFull right? I'll just have to pay more to get the BAM file I presume.

    Yes, you can transfer your results to YFull but you’ll have to pay Family Tree $100 before they’ll release your Bam file. And the Bam file is the ideal way to go. On the other hand, you can still upload your VCF file to YFull, without any extra charge (from FT). However, that will mean that YFull won’t be able to do a second analysis and will just be confined to reporting FT’s calls. YFull will still be able to do an age estimation and form new branches and if you wanted to buy your Bam file later on, YFull will upgrade your analysis for free.

    If you do decide to go with Family Tree, remember to buy your test during one of their sales. They appear to be having one right now, connected to the RootsTech Conference and I believe the Y700 sale price is $379. Although, you should double check that because I’m not seeing that price listed on their website
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-25-2021 at 10:54 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (02-27-2021),  AlluGobi (02-26-2021),  deadly77 (02-25-2021),  rms2 (02-25-2021)

  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    As you are a south Asian your family most likely know their family history going back to a few hundred years, most Hindus, Sikh and recent converts to Christianity or Islam etc. should be able to find their roots at places like Haridwar, Pandits there have records. https://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...-death-2266907 .

    https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en...orical_Records

    https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en...iew_the_Images

    https://yadgaartrust.com/ancestors-panday-records/

    https://genealogysstar.blogspot.com/...1194-2012.html

    https://www.familysearch.org/search/...7930/waypoints

    I think best option for you is a WGS as it will be cheaper and also gives you yDNA, mtDNA and autosomal and you can register at YFULL, and also at DNA warehouse for free, this is run by genetic experts they already have an extensive R1b tree and are building for other haplogroups. Please consult aaronbee2010 as he knows better about your WGS options. https://ydna-warehouse.org/coverage....tp3ahfx2xgyV54
    Thanks for the links, I'll use them when researching other sides of my family. But I wanted to specifically do the Y-700 because my paternal grandfather's family are Awans, and their origins are very obscure, plus they've moved around a lot, so I can't really go back to an accurate written record.

    I haven't really decided what I want to do yet, but I will keep WGS in mind when I do make a decision.

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AlluGobi For This Useful Post:

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Yes, you can transfer your results to YFull but you’ll have to pay Family Tree $100 before they’ll release your Bam file. And the Bam file is the ideal way to go. On the other hand, you can still upload your VCF file to YFull, without any extra charge (from FT). However, that will mean that YFull won’t be able to do a second analysis and will just be confined to reporting FT’s calls. YFull will still be able to do an age estimation and form new branches and if you wanted to buy your Bam file later on, YFull will upgrade your analysis for free.

    If you do decide to go with Family Tree, remember to buy your test during one of their sales. They appear to be having one right now, connected to the RootsTech Conference and I believe the Y700 sale price is $379. Although, you should double check that because I’m not seeing that price listed on their website
    I can't see the sale at the moment (I'm in the UK), but I will wait for a sale and think it through.

    Thanks again to everyone who's chipped in, although I haven't made up my mind yet, I know a little bit more about my choices.
    Last edited by AlluGobi; 02-26-2021 at 11:06 AM.

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlluGobi View Post
    I can't see the sale at the moment (I'm in the UK), but I will wait for a sale and think it through.

    Thanks again to everyone who's chipped in, although I haven't made up my mind yet, I know a little bit more about my choices.

    I found the flyer for the Sale and it looks like you have to enter the coupon codes to get the discounts.

    CAB90F97-6460-410F-8CFE-F5527B3D3EFF.jpeg
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-26-2021 at 10:15 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    I found the the flyer for the Sale and it looks like you have to enter the coupon codes to get the discounts.

    CAB90F97-6460-410F-8CFE-F5527B3D3EFF.jpeg
    Wow that actually worked, thanks a lot!

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlluGobi View Post
    Wow that actually worked, thanks a lot!
    My pleasure!
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

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  19. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    I found the flyer for the Sale and it looks like you have to enter the coupon codes to get the discounts.

    CAB90F97-6460-410F-8CFE-F5527B3D3EFF.jpeg


    Just in case anyone else sees that flyer. Apparently, there’s a typo on the original concerning the time period of the sale. It ends on March 7th, not on April 23rd.

    https://blog.familytreedna.com/wp-co...sTech-2021.pdf
    Last edited by JMcB; 02-27-2021 at 07:29 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

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