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Thread: Is Motala ancient genome part of Paleolithic migration from South Asia ?

  1. #1
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    Post Is Motala ancient genome part of Paleolithic migration from South Asia ?

    The Motala-2 man has Y-dna F-P139 mtDNA U5e1



    Shows up on Harappaworld as Finnish. However when doing a 1-on-1 match I get at .1cM getting close to 27% to my own Kit. The presence of Indian/South Asian Y-dna like F, H1, H3 in paleolithic Europe is known in many places like Scandinavia, Wales, Germany etc... this is apart from ancient split of H2 y-dna present in most of the Neolithic sites which has some South Asian part

    Total CM: 900.47
    Largest segment cM: 9.14
    Total segments: 512


    Similarly Motala-1 Sweden 7000 yo shows
    Total CM: 954.29
    Largest segment cM: 5.05
    Total segments: 623


    HarappaWorld Oracle results:
    23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

    Kit TD4304453

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 NE-Euro 86.9
    2 Mediterranean 10.31
    3 American 2.79

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 finnish (1000genomes) 11.45
    2 lithuanian (behar) 16.6
    3 belorussian (behar) 23.57
    4 russian (hgdp) 23.59
    5 russian (behar) 24.36
    6 mordovian (yunusbayev) 26.96
    7 ukranian (yunusbayev) 29.62
    8 n-european (xing) 37.64
    9 slovenian (xing) 37.79
    10 utahn-white (hapmap) 38.13
    11 orcadian (hgdp) 38.86
    12 chuvash (behar) 39.2
    13 hungarian (behar) 39.76
    14 utahn-white (1000genomes) 40.38
    15 british (1000genomes) 40.66
    16 french (hgdp) 48.81
    17 romanian-a (behar) 53.34
    18 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 54.68
    19 spaniard (behar) 60.44
    20 spaniard (1000genomes) 61.22

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 80.5% finnish (1000genomes) + 19.5% lithuanian (behar) @ 11.05
    2 97.9% finnish (1000genomes) + 2.1% orcadian (hgdp) @ 11.42
    3 99.1% finnish (1000genomes) + 0.9% basque (hgdp) @ 11.43
    4 98.8% finnish (1000genomes) + 1.2% british (1000genomes) @ 11.44
    5 99.3% finnish (1000genomes) + 0.7% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 11.44
    6 99.5% finnish (1000genomes) + 0.5% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 11.45
    7 99.8% finnish (1000genomes) + 0.2% n-european (xing) @ 11.45
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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  3. #2
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    As the Harappaworld result you posted shows, he has nothing to do with South Asians.
    Besides, I have seen some spreadsheet in the past where H3 ydna was assigned to some paleolithic samples from Europe, however unless someone can show me that these assignments were made taking into account +ve SNPs at both H3 and upstream clades (H-M2826 and H-L901), I think they should not be taken seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    As the Harappaworld result you posted shows, he has nothing to do with South Asians.
    Besides, I have seen some spreadsheet in the past where H3 ydna was assigned to some paleolithic samples from Europe, however unless someone can show me that these assignments were made taking into account +ve SNPs at both H3 and upstream clades (H-M2826 and H-L901), I think they should not be taken seriously.
    I guess more studies need to done on these
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    I have a Jatt match surname Mann. He is getting like double what I get on these samples

    Mann 1
    Total CM: 1901.29
    Largest segment cM: 20.25
    Total segments: 589

    Mann 2
    Total CM: 2402.17
    Largest segment cM: 252.37
    Total segments: 205
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    I have a Jatt match surname Mann. He is getting like double what I get on these samples

    Mann 1
    Total CM: 1901.29
    Largest segment cM: 20.25
    Total segments: 589

    Mann 2
    Total CM: 2402.17
    Largest segment cM: 252.37
    Total segments: 205
    That is huge chunk, I wonder what is going on here?

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    In all likelihood none of those lines are originally South Asian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    That is huge chunk, I wonder what is going on here?
    Looks like this kit is mixed Jatt and probably Bihar Kshatriya or brahmin both of which had high of those ancient Finn like genes.
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    In all likelihood none of those lines are originally South Asian.
    Not much research done on rare ancient South Asian lines. cursory look suggests outside but thorough analysis might revel more
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    The high presence among Purbiyas makes me believe that the ancient Ikshvaku were probably all heavy Motala like genome mixed with some of the Iran/Kurd CHL Medes like
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a* extras->11368C 16093A 8860A (195T) (309.1C) (315.1C)

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    The high presence among Purbiyas makes me believe that the ancient Ikshvaku were probably all heavy Motala like genome mixed with some of the Iran/Kurd CHL Medes like
    Are you saying there were people in India who were predominantly Scandinavian Hunter Gatherer + NW Iranian like?

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