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Thread: Presence of Peninsular Arab in Southern Europeans

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJJ View Post
    5.4% Taforalt = 20% NA in Portuguese, I would like to see a scientific article that affirms that.
    Make a proportion between the "Total" of the Portuguese average and that of the North Moroccan average, it doesn't come out 20% but 14%, similar to the table you posted that gave 12%. This topic however has annoyed me, and I'll stop here.

    Taforalt % SSA % Total
    Moroccan_South 31,325 27,2 58,525
    Berber_MAR_TIZ 40,3142857 12,5428572 52,8571
    Berber_MAR_ERR 34,1571429 13,4142857 47,5714
    Moroccan 27,3333333 14,4666667 41,8
    Moroccan_North 29,5666667 6,8333334 36,4
    Spanish_Canarias 9,1157895 1,2210526 10,3368
    Spanish_Asturias 5,4 0 5,4
    Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 5,2666667 0 5,26667
    Portuguese 5,112 0,12 5,232
    Spanish_Extremadura 5 0,0666667 5,06667
    Spanish_Galicia 4,5222222 0,0333333 4,55556
    Spanish_Andalucia 4,4315789 0,0315789 4,46316
    Spanish_Murcia 3,55 0,2 3,75
    Spanish_Cataluna 2,7333333 0,2 2,93333
    Spanish_Alacant 2,7666667 0,0666667 2,83333
    Spanish_Valencia 2,55 0 2,55
    Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 2,45 0 2,45
    Spanish_Aragon 2,35 0 2,35
    Spanish_Eivissa 2,1538462 0,1230769 2,27692
    Spanish_Menorca 1,9333333 0,1333333 2,06667
    Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona 1,85 0,025 1,875
    Spanish_Pirineu 1,8333333 0 1,83333
    Spanish_Baleares 1,7333333 0,0666667 1,8
    Spanish_Cantabria 1,7333333 0 1,73333
    Spanish_Navarra 1,6 0 1,6
    Spanish_Mallorca 1,4 0,1555555 1,55556
    Spanish_Peri-Barcelona 1,52 0 1,52
    Spanish_Barcelones 1,04 0,24 1,28
    Spanish_Castello 1,2285714 0,0285714 1,25714
    Spanish_Penedes 1,2545455 0 1,25455
    Spanish_Lleida 1,2 0,0444444 1,24444
    Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre 1,24 0 1,24
    Spanish_La_Rioja 1,2 0 1,2
    Spanish_Girona 1,18 0 1,18
    Spanish_Soria 0,9 0 0,9
    Spanish_Catalunya_Central 0,7555556 0 0,75556
    Spanish_Pais_Vasco 0,4 0 0,4
    Basque_Spanish 0,1555556 0,0222222 0,17778
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Make a proportion between the "Total" of the Portuguese average and that of the North Moroccan average, it doesn't come out 20% but 14%, similar to the table you posted that gave 12%. This topic however has annoyed me, and I'll stop here.
    I think we are not understanding each other, my table indicates the total North African percentage, Taforalt / SSA is only a part of the ancestry in North Africans as you can see in the table you published (it reaches a maximum of 60% adding both). Components such as Barcin, Levant, etc ... that they also have are still missing.

    In my signature you can see a model with Berber and Roman Imperial references (which include Levant), It is not necessary to use Taforalt in addition to being possibly more precise and that it is more in accordance with the table that I published.

    [1] "distance%=1.9178"

    JJJ

    NW_Iberia_IA,79.8
    Roman_Colonial,12.4
    Berber_EMA,7.8

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  5. #103
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    Modern North Africans are very mixed. It's a mess actually trying to model them with Paleolithic/mesolithic and Neolithic references. Not to mention that Natufian, Taforalt-Iberomaurusian have ssa as well , West African like input and its making it even harder to estimate their components. What we can say for sure is that their Anatolian N admixture is not a joke.

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    Main difference is your grandfather is more North Atlantic than me while I am more West Asian.

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 33.59
    2 West_Asian 21.61
    3 West_Med 19.24
    4 North_Atlantic 12.15
    5 Red_Sea 6.60
    6 Baltic 5.57

    1 Armenian + Central_Greek + Cyprian + West_Sicilian @ 1.126853
    2 Armenian + Cyprian + East_Sicilian + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.139689
    3 Armenian + Central_Greek + Lebanese_Christian + Tuscan @ 1.189141
    4 Armenian + Central_Greek + Cyprian + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.367615

    Your grandfather has a normal autosomal for a 100% Southern Italian. The 'Levant/North African' is ancient admixture, not recent.

    Wow, just an aside here, but I never realized how Dodecanese shifted that Chiote reference is. The GEDmatch samples I have from Chios cluster are intermediate between Kalymniotes and Fourniotes on the K15 PCA, although I think it is just 3 or 4 total.

  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Modern North Africans are very mixed. It's a mess actually trying to model them with Paleolithic/mesolithic and Neolithic references. Not to mention that Natufian, Taforalt-Iberomaurusian have ssa as well , West African like input and its making it even harder to estimate their components. What we can say for sure is that their Anatolian N admixture is not a joke.
    Ana is not west African like, it’s closer to African populations but it’s a component that’s entirely it’s own. West Africans have Input from iberomaurusian not the other way around, there is a paper where they are modelled as 12-13 percent ana if I recall I’ll have to find it. It’s fairly easy to model North Africans in the correct model it’s not really mess as long as you choose the right components.

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  10. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    - Read better what I wrote. I didn't say it wasn't indicative, I said that if you want to estimate a percentage of North African ancestry in Europeans you don't have to count ONLY Taforalt, but also SSA. And that these two should be aggregated to calculate the percentage.
    - There is little difference between 12% and 14.4%, the value is the same and only the samples used change.
    No you don’t have to count the ssa because I know a canary islander with no ssa but still scored over 20 percent berber. So you are wrong:

    Target: Canary islander
    Distance: 2.1501% / 0.02150115
    54.0 Early_European_Farmer
    26.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
    10.8 Iberomaurusian
    9.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer

    Target: Canary islander
    Distance: 1.8657% / 0.01865702
    60.8 Basque_Spanish
    31.4 Berber
    4.2 Asia_minor
    3.6 Iranian_Seyyed

    Me on the same model:

    Target: maroco
    Distance: 1.3659% / 0.01365938
    64.2 Berber
    22.2 Southern_Levant
    10.0 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    2.4 Levantine
    0.8 Cushitic
    0.4 Basque_Spanish

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  12. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroco View Post
    Ana is not west African like, it’s closer to African populations but it’s a component that’s entirely it’s own. West Africans have Input from iberomaurusian not the other way around, there is a paper where they are modelled as 12-13 percent ana if I recall I’ll have to find it. It’s fairly easy to model North Africans in the correct model it’s not really mess as long as you choose the right components.
    I don't really care if its west african or not,its definitely not part of the west eurasian spectrum.And as i mention above both iberomaurusian and natufians were at some point SSA influenced.And ofc E1b1b is an african/ssa related marker.The african components are much closer to each other instead to other west eurasian components.As for North Africans models,they are far harder to model them compared to average european or west asian.You will need at least 4,5 refrences to put in your model.Just look yours...

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  14. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    I don't really care if its west african or not,its definitely not part of the west eurasian spectrum.And as i mention above both iberomaurusian and natufians were at some point SSA influenced.And ofc E1b1b is an african/ssa related marker.The african components are much closer to each other instead to other west eurasian components.As for North Africans models,they are far harder to model them compared to average european or west asian.You will need at least 4,5 refrences to put in your model.Just look yours...
    Who said it was west Eurasian stop adjusting my words, I said it’s not west African like I don’t want it to be west Eurasian and never stated it was read before you reply. It’s still African it’s just not west African like, like you tried to state. Where are you getting your information from iberomaurusian is not ssa influenced and it never was, as for natufain it is also not ssa influenced it can be modelled as part North African, ana which is its own component
    Last edited by maroco; 03-05-2021 at 12:12 AM.

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  16. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroco View Post
    Who said it was west Eurasian stop adjusting my words, I said it’s not west African like I don’t want it to be west Eurasian and never stated it was read before reply. It’s still African it’s just not west African like, like you tried to state
    Just look your post above.It looks like an attack to my face because i mention western african origins...You write it with some kind of complex,don't you?My point from the beginning it was to mention that modern North Africans sharing many similar components that they are hard to differentiate.Do you agree?Its Natufian and Iberomaurusians so different?Ofc they have some diffrences but they also sharing a similar component.

  17. #110
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    Would ANA be closer to an SSA ghost (without ANA) and or a non ANA admixed Eurasian population (East Eurasian, ANE, WHG)?

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