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Thread: R-U152+/L408+

  1. #1

    R-U152+/L408+

    I don’t know if Richard Rocca has verified that this sample could be the Jew R-U152+/L408+ tested by Rootsy et alii in the “Levites R1a”. There could be published his SNPs very likely at the Big Y level:

    70984 L2+ Z49- Z367- L408+ L409+ L443+ L69+ Samuel Ochs/Erdei,b1807,Banovce n Bebrav.Slovakia Family Tree DNA 545

  2. #2
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    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    I'm not sure, but certainly the Rootsy study L2* sample is L408+ and L409+.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    I'm not sure, but certainly the Rootsy study L2* sample is L408+ and L409+.
    But I did mean: have you verified if all those SNPs have some in common with the SNPs that are coming out from Big Y and FullY? Because that haplotype seems very different from all the others of the R-U152 haplogroup and may shed some light about the origin of these Jewish haplotypes, not only on the R-U152 haplogroup but also in others.
    I have seen in your spreadsheet on the "Italy FTDNA Project" also an R-L4 of unknown origin. Is he a Jew?
    Last edited by Rathna; 03-17-2014 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    But I did mean: have you verified if all those SNPs have some in common with the SNPs that are coming out from Big Y and FullY? Because that haplotype seems very different from all the others of the R-U152 haplogroup and may shed some light about the origin of these Jewish haplotypes, not only on the R-U152 haplogroup but also in others.
    I have seen in your spreadsheet on the "Italy FTDNA Project" also an R-L4 of unknown origin. Is he a Jew?
    The Rootsy L2+L408+L409+ sample does not share any SNPs with any of the Full Genomes or Big-Y sample so far. The L4 is anonymous, so we know nothing about him.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    The Rootsy L2+L408+L409+ sample does not share any SNPs with any of the Full Genomes or Big-Y sample so far. The L4 is anonymous, so we know nothing about him.
    I too didn't find any link within the known results, but I was asking you if there is something new. Thus that the introgression in the Jewish pool may have happened before the diaspora should be taken in consideration, even though an English L69 (28505 and 21910 from North Wales) could speak for a more recent European origin.
    It seems to me more likely an origin of the Jewish L4 from Iberia, if we look at 217503 (Gonzalez) and it isn't said that the Jewish L4 descend from an unique ancestor: they could come from different introgressions.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    I too didn't find any link within the known results, but I was asking you if there is something new. Thus that the introgression in the Jewish pool may have happened before the diaspora should be taken in consideration, even though an English L69 (28505 and 21910 from North Wales) could speak for a more recent European origin.
    It seems to me more likely an origin of the Jewish L4 from Iberia, if we look at 217503 (Gonzalez) and it isn't said that the Jewish L4 descend from an unique ancestor: they could come from different introgressions.
    As you know, L4 is under Z56 which has nothing to do with L2. Regarding Z56 and L4, there are now two subclades between Z56 and L4. Kit number 42240 is now just above L4. So, the non-Jewish samples are above L4 on the tree.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    As you know, L4 is under Z56 which has nothing to do with L2. Regarding Z56 and L4, there are now two subclades between Z56 and L4. Kit number 42240 is now just above L4. So, the non-Jewish samples are above L4 on the tree.
    This is fascinating, are most Jewish samples Z56+?
    What kind of U152 subclade do Jews belong to?
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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