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Thread: G25 results of Pinoys

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.
    Yes you are right I don't think the Igorot have real Han ancestry but some of the other Filipino samples still do with one outlier that gets 30% Han Chinese.I was using the Han_Shanxi as my source sample, I'm not really knowledgeable about East Asia, so I want to know is it better to use some of those Yellow River Neolithic samples as a source sample instead of modern Northern or Central Han?

     



    Target: Mother_scaled
    Distance: 2.7347% / 0.02734703 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    92.2 Somali
    7.8 Yemenite_Jew

    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.9400% / 0.02939982 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    94.0 Somali
    5.4 Yemenite_Jew
    0.6 Levant_Natufian

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Filipinos are basically Austronesian + Han Chinese. How did this Chinese ancestry become such a significant component among the Filipinos?
     


    With some Indian, Arab and European ancestry as well. I'm still baffled by how did the Arabs reached the Phils and mixed into the locals. Islamization of the archipelago before Spanish colonization? But then why do most other SE Asians don't exhibit Arab admixture? Maybe I will have to run Indonesian and Malay samples to compare.

    I would also suggested adding the Murut, which is a modern tribal Austronesian group from Borneo, which really help improve the distance fits.

    Mainstream Philippine populations


    Ethnic minorities:


    I wanted to see if the South Asian ancestry is real so decided to add Onge. Looks like the Indian ancestry is genuine as it is still there after the Onge is included in the run.

    Mainstream Philippine populations:


    Ethnic minorities


    I am still fascinated by the fact that many Filipinos are scoring Arab ancestry which is strange. Also now it looks like the Igorots are not scoring any West Eurasian, but the Negritos (Aeta, Agta, Batak) have both Indian and West Eurasian admixture (Iran_N and Yemeni) despite adding Onge? Really peculiar. Could it be that there is also precolonial Indian admixture into the Negritos like into the mainstream Philippine ethnic groups?

    I believe the Chinese ancestry in Pinoys actually come from multiple waves of Chinese traders and settlers who likely migrate to the Philippines from precolonial period to present day. It seems the Chinese trade with locals of the Phils probably as early as the 7th century along time ago before the arrival of the Spaniards: https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...arly-china.htm

    Trade between China and the Philippines probably started centuries before the advent of the Sung Dynasty. The "A Collection of Data in Chinese Classical Books Regarding the Philippines" was published by the Institute of Southeast Asian History of Zhongsan (Sun Yat Sen) University, Guangzhou (1900). It states: “During the T’ang (Thang) dynasty China (in the 7th to the 9th century AD) the two peoples of China and the Philippines already had relatively close relations and material as well as cultural exchanges.”

    During the Sung (960-1127 AD), Arab traders brought Philippine goods to southwestern China through the port of Canton. Chinese posts were established in coastal towns of the Philippines with the import of Chinese goods. The trade culminated when Chao Ju-Kua wrote of the barter trade between the Chinese and the natives of Mayi (Mindoro). The Chinese exchanged silk, porcelain, colored glass, beads and iron ware for hemp cloth, tortoise shells, pearls and yellow wax of the Filipinos.

    The Chinese became the dominant traders in the 12th and 13th centuries during the Sung Dynaasty (960-1279 AD). The shift in the commerce between China and Southeast Asia saw Butuan send a tribute mission to the Sung emperor. The Chinese notice of Luzon appears to have instigated a new round of tributary missions in the early fifteenth century by Luzon, Pangasinan, and a polity known as Mao-li-wu [possibly Ma-i on Mindoro].
    In fact it seems that kamote, a Philippine local type of potato, is popular among the Chinese dating back to the Ming Dynasty which help them survive during natural calamities and disasters which show there are like trading between the Phils and China very early back in history: https://pia.gov.ph/index.php/news/ar...20and%20pearls.

    So if there is a lot of trading and other exchanges going on, I won't be surprised many Chinese also settled in the Philippines intermarried with the locals which probably lead to the high amount of Chinese blood in modern Filipinos.

    Btw off topic, but in the SE Asian region, Thai people also have very significant Chinese ancestry, probably much more than Filipinos on average, as there were multiple waves of Chinese migrants into Thailand from Southern China for many centuries maybe even early as the Ayutthaya Period. In fact, around 14% of Thailand's population is believe to be ethnic Chinese, while those who have partial Chinese ancestry are definitely much higher in percentage of the population. I'm also of Chinese descent from Thailand myself. In fact, a Thai linguist claimed that around 40% of Thailand's population might have Chinese ancestors somewhere in their lineage although they don't considered themselves as Chinese. I'm not sure how reliable this is though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_C...te-Theraphan-1
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 03-04-2021 at 09:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    I was wondering myself a bit about Arab admixture among Filipinos since some of them are Muslim with Arabic sounding surnames. I work with one woman who is originally from Mindanao and she has both an Arabic sounding first name and surname. When I asked her about her origins she told me that her family has a tradition that they have some ancestors who moved to the Phillipines from the Middle East a long time ago. She looks no different than any of the other Filipinos at my work though. If she does have any Arab ancestors they must have moved there many generations ago...Pretty interesting stuff anyway.
    Very interesting. I actually find it strange that there are Arab admixture among Pinoys from Luzon. Could it be that many of these Filipino samples are actually from Mindanao? That might be why they have some Arab ancestry. Maybe this gene flow arrived with the Arab traders who could have come to also introduce Islam and settled in the archipelago. Although according to that wikipedia source, only 2% of the population have partial Arab ancestry, it might actually be higher if these Pinoy individual samples are representative of the Philippines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_...rab%20ancestry.

    Btw since a lot of them are from Mindanao including her, have you ask them if they can speak Malay or Indonesian? Since it so close to those two nations, I would think that those from Mindanao would know some Bahasa Malay or Indonesian due to the cultural and religious links to them.
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 03-04-2021 at 08:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Filipinos are basically Austronesian + Han Chinese. How did this Chinese ancestry become such a significant component among the Filipinos?
     


    Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains.

    The Spanish presence in the Philippines was very light demographically over the centuries of their colonial rule. There was considerable residential segregation of the Spanish away from the natives, and the Chinese, who outnumbered the Spaniards often by two orders of magnitude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.
    The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

    I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.

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    In my old atlas from the Dutch East Indies (early 1920s), I read the following about Java's population: ~34,4 million natives, ~384,000 Chinese, ~135,000 Europeans, ~28,000 Arabs, ~3,000 British-Indians. Perhaps this was similar in the Philippines. Arabs had large trade networks throughout the Indian Ocean. The Chinese community was quite endogamous.
    Last edited by Pylsteen; 03-04-2021 at 09:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okarinaofsteiner View Post
    Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains.

    The Spanish presence in the Philippines was very light demographically over the centuries of their colonial rule. There was considerable residential segregation of the Spanish away from the natives, and the Chinese, who outnumbered the Spaniards often by two orders of magnitude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.


    The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

    I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.
    And yet, my father-in-law
    Target: Dewsloth_FIL_scaled
    Distance: 0.8758% / 0.00875763
    33.6 Luzon
    17.2 Igorot
    12.8 Han_Sichuan
    6.4 Spanish_Aragon
    5.8 Han_Chongqing
    5.0 Macedonian
    3.6 Hawaiian
    3.0 Sardinian
    2.6 Htin_Mal
    1.6 Yemenite_Mahra
    1.4 Bosnian

    1.2 Aeta
    1.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    1.0 French_South

    1.0 Gadaba
    1.0 Italian_Liguria
    1.0 Kambera_Rindi
    0.4 Zapotec
    0.2 Maonan
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by okarinaofsteiner View Post
    Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains.





    The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

    I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.
    Yep I utilized Han_Zhejiang as the proxy for the Chinese gene flow as Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong seem to have more Austronesian and Daic ancestry.

    Off topic, but it seems like in the SE Asian region, Thais still have much more Chinese ancestry on average than Pinoys do. Heck, at least 14% of Thailand's population is ethnic Chinese while those who have partial Chinese ancestry is much higher in percentage of the Thai population. A Thai linguist even estimated that around 40% of Thai people have Chinese ancestors somewhere in their bloodline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese

    Thailand seems to have the highest amount of Overseas Chinese in the world for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Chinese

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    And yet, my father-in-law
    Target: Dewsloth_FIL_scaled
    Distance: 0.8758% / 0.00875763
    33.6 Luzon
    17.2 Igorot
    12.8 Han_Sichuan
    6.4 Spanish_Aragon
    5.8 Han_Chongqing
    5.0 Macedonian
    3.6 Hawaiian
    3.0 Sardinian
    2.6 Htin_Mal
    1.6 Yemenite_Mahra
    1.4 Bosnian

    1.2 Aeta
    1.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    1.0 French_South

    1.0 Gadaba
    1.0 Italian_Liguria
    1.0 Kambera_Rindi
    0.4 Zapotec
    0.2 Maonan
    What is his background if you don't mind me asking? Maybe the Macedonian, Sardinian, Bosnian, French and Italian comes from his Spanish ancestry (assuming his Euro ancestry is Iberian since that the main source of Euro admixture in Pinos)?

  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    In my old atlas from the Dutch East Indies (early 1920s), I read the following about Java's population: ~34,4 million natives, ~384,000 Chinese, ~135,000 Europeans, ~28,000 Arabs, ~3,000 British-Indians. Perhaps this was similar in the Philippines. Arabs had large trade networks throughout the Indian Ocean. The Chinese community was quite endogamous.
    The Javanese samples don't really show any Yemeni or African ancestry (Hadhramawt is heavily Bantu admixed) which isn't superising since once the Yemenis established and initially intermarry they probably remained quite endogamous.There was an Indonesian user descended from the famous Hashemite Ba'alawi clan and he was if I recall correctly predominantly Arabian + Horner with significant SE Asian & minor South Asian ancestry yet his family has been in Indonesia for generations according to him.

    I do wonder why these Filipinos score Yemeni when there wasn't really much permanent Arab settlement over there.Perhaps this Yemeni ancestry was mediated by Malays from Borneo? But besides some Malay elites and royal houses I doubt that there was enough arab admixed Malays to impact the population.Either these samples are outliers from a specific muslim community or this is just noise imo.I am leaning toward the latter tbh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsakhur View Post
    Very interesting. I actually find it strange that there are Arab admixture among Pinoys from Luzon. Could it be that many of these Filipino samples are actually from Mindanao? That might be why they have some Arab ancestry. Maybe this gene flow arrived with the Arab traders who could have come to also introduce Islam and settled in the archipelago. Although according to that wikipedia source, only 2% of the population have partial Arab ancestry, it might actually be higher if these Pinoy individual samples are representative of the Philippines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_...rab%20ancestry.

    Btw since a lot of them are from Mindanao including her, have you ask them if they can speak Malay or Indonesian? Since it so close to those two nations, I would think that those from Mindanao would know some Bahasa Malay or Indonesian due to the cultural and religious links to them.
    I know that they all speak Tagalog since that seems to be the lingua franca of them all. There are a few from Luzon at my work as well. I can ask a few of them the next time that I see them at work if they can speak Malay or Indonesian.
    Last edited by J Man; 03-04-2021 at 09:53 PM.

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