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Thread: Alevi ethnicity?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLSK View Post
    Apologies, however I think those observations I've made are very relevant to the subject. I'm not Turkish, Alevi, Kurmanji or Zaza speaker. It's not about making political points.
    What's up with the recent influx of politics-related posts directed at Turks? Do you think we are uncapable of sensing your intentions? Or do you think we are uncapable of replying in the same manner and posting similar contents?

    Quote Originally Posted by MLSK View Post
    I think Alevi identity has become very political and that politics is playing a crucial role in so many Alevi results being identical with Sunni Kurmanji/Zaza results.
    Let me repeat it, Alevism is a sect, not an ethnic group. Alevi Turks are genetically distinct from Kurds/Zazas and identicai to their Sunni Turkish counterparts. I'm not sure about the Erzurum area, because I've not seen any Alevi Turkish sample from there. But we have samples from the rest of the Alevi Turkish communities.

    Quote Originally Posted by MLSK View Post
    I get the impression that the ethnic Turkish Alevis don't identify as strongly with Alevism - they've blended and disappeared among the secularist Turkish Kemalist mass
    Another nonsense. Just because they aren't politically radicalized like certain groups doesn't mean they don't identify with Alevism anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by MLSK View Post
    or became Shia Twelvers/Azerbaijanis.
    This sentence alone says a lot about how informed you are about the subject. No, they didn't become Azerbaijanis.

    Quote Originally Posted by MLSK View Post
    But like I said, I'm not from Turkey, I don't have full insight into this subject.
    I can tell that.
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  3. #12
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    I'm an Alevi Turk from Erzincan (my paternal ancestral town) / Kahramanmaras (paternal side migrated to Maras during Russian occupation in WWI) and Tunceli (maternal side). Unlike our Sunni brethren, nearly every Alevi knows his clan due to our living conditions till the proclamation of the Republic. So most Alevis know very well their ethnic affiliations even without genetic testing. The clans of Anatolia are historically documented pretty accurate by the Ottoman authorities in the Tahrir defterleri. So there is no need for wild speculations on who is what. It is also pretty naive to think that Turks living in Eastern Turkey didn't mix up with their Kurdish or Armenian neighbors. Look at the results from Turks from Erzincan to Erzurum - we are closer to Azeris and Kurds then to some Anatolian Turks and this is OK.

    When it comes to the issue of assimilation, it happened both ways: Kurds to Turks and Turks to Kurds. I have even seen Kurds with y-DNA Haplogroup N, so this is not unusual at all. After the Battle of Chaldiran, the Kurdish Beys where set in charge in eastern Anatolia and many Turks, Alevi and Sunni alike assimilated in the Kurdish culture. Even some of my fellow clansmen (should not use this word) see themselves as Kurds and some others as Turks.

    Seen from a DNA-perspective, Alevis resemble their Kurdish and Turkish neighbors because that's what most people do - everywhere. Seen from an cultural point of view, Alevisim is pretty turkic in many of his elements. Seen from an historical point of view, many Kurdish Alevi clans today were not documented in historical documents as Kurds. There could be various reasons for it and I'm not saying that they are all assimilated Turks or some wild guess. Every one is free to identify himself as he wishes to. I live in Germany and I wouldn't be surprised if my Kids identify themselves one day as Almans

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AureliusDNA View Post
    Seen from an cultural point of view, Alevisim is pretty turkic in many of his elements.
    I watched a short documentary about Turkmen 'Tahtaci' Alevis of Mugla, on a very pro-Kurdish channel. There was this woman sitting beside what looked like a long horizontally laying large rectangular rock, reminiscent of a Gobeklitepe rock, she was singing what sounded like a nursery rhyme. One elder spoke about how it was traditional to visit this rock they call 'Baba', sing songs, make wishes, tie rags etc. I got the sense that this form of Alevism was an Turkic slash Anatolian reaction to the spread of, in my opinion intolerant, Sunni Islamic beliefs in Anatolia, like a compromise. It was fascinating to watch.
    Distance: 1.4145%
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid View Post
    I watched a short documentary about Turkmen 'Tahtaci' Alevis of Mugla, on a very pro-Kurdish channel. There was this woman sitting beside what looked like a long horizontally laying large rectangular rock, reminiscent of a Gobeklitepe rock, she was singing what sounded like a nursery rhyme. One elder spoke about how it was traditional to visit this rock they call 'Baba', sing songs, make wishes, tie rags etc. I got the sense that this form of Alevism was an Turkic slash Anatolian reaction to the spread of, in my opinion intolerant, Sunni Islamic beliefs in Anatolia, like a compromise. It was fascinating to watch.
    Alevis from Erzincan, Sivas, Corum and Tunceli have similar customs. Alevis from Tunceli even have goat shaped tomb stones, which is as a cultural phenomena turkic.


    https://www.belgeseltarih.com/altayl...i-koc-baslari/

    https://www.yenivatan.at/anadoluda-t...unceli-ilinde/
    Last edited by AureliusDNA; 06-26-2021 at 12:01 PM.

  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AureliusDNA View Post
    Alevis from Erzincan, Sivas, Corum and Tunceli have similar customs. Alevis from Tunceli even have goat shaped tomb stones, which is as a cultural phenomena turkic.


    https://www.belgeseltarih.com/altayl...i-koc-baslari/

    https://www.yenivatan.at/anadoluda-t...unceli-ilinde/
    There are earlier examples of qoch bash found in the Nakhchivan area and Karabakh
    Distance: 1.4145%
    37.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    32.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    18.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    11.6 CHN_Boshan_N

    97.6% Anatolian, 1.3% Central Asian, 0.7% Sudanese, 0.4% Trace (23&me)

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  10. #16
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    As far as i know an outsider cannot convert to alevism, it's a bit like judaism, one of the parents must be an alevi or a dede needs to convert you. So i'd call Alevism an ethno-religious group. Of course this "rule" has been relaxed and streched throughout the sect's history, given the results shared here.

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