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Thread: Latin American Calculator

  1. #1
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    Question Latin American Calculator

    Does anyone know of or have a calculator with Latin American samples (such as Cuban or Venezuelan)?
    Haplogroups:

    Paternal: EV13

    Maternal: J2

  2. #2
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    These groups are not ethnicities. Having Latin American samples equals having in a single sample 'White Americans', Afro-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Native North Americans, French-Canadians, Lousiana Creoles, Indian-Canadians, Somali-Canadians and Canadians of British Ancestry and calling them all ''North American'' or just including WASPS and Afro-Americans in a single ''American'' group. Even in homogeneously admixed groups like Mexicans (in the sense that almost everyone is admixed, I'm not saying all have the same ratios) most people will have quite different scores, someone that is 75% European, 21% Indigenous and 4% SSA cannot be part of the same genetic group as someone that is 75% Amerindian, 21% European and 4% SSA. Both are Mexican and mixed, but their genetic stories are quite different and in social terms the latter will probably identify as Native American.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    These groups are not ethnicities. Having Latin American samples equals having in a single sample 'White Americans', Afro-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Native North Americans, French-Canadians, Lousiana Creoles, Indian-Canadians, Somali-Canadians and Canadians of British Ancestry and calling them all ''North American'' or just including WASPS and Afro-Americans in a single ''American'' group. Even in homogeneously admixed groups like Mexicans (in the sense that almost everyone is admixed, I'm not saying all have the same ratios) most people will have quite different scores, someone that is 75% European, 21% Indigenous and 4% SSA cannot be part of the same genetic group as someone that is 75% Amerindian, 21% European and 4% SSA. Both are Mexican and mixed, but their genetic stories are quite different and in social terms the latter will probably identify as Native American.
    I’m aware that these countries vary greatly ethnically, didn’t mean to sound ignorant. I meant more is there one with general population samples.
    Haplogroups:

    Paternal: EV13

    Maternal: J2

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    Making a Latin American calculator - You should use Iberian samples + Native South american + West African + maybe
    Sephardi (Iberian jewish).

    That will give a somewhat accurate calculator.
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    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 3.1640% / 0.03163963 | R3P
    64.4 __Germanic
    26.4 __IllyricRoman
    9.2 __Finnic

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    Making a Latin American calculator - You should use Iberian samples + Native South american + West African + maybe
    Sephardi (Iberian jewish).

    That will give a somewhat accurate calculator.
    This is great! Thanks
    Haplogroups:

    Paternal: EV13

    Maternal: J2

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    Actually I think Cuban and Venezuelan are ethnicities.

    Here is how ethnicity is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary:

    https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/64791...=ethnicity#eid

    2. Status in respect of membership of a group regarded as ultimately of common descent, or having a common national or cultural tradition; ethnic character.

    Ethnicity covers culture and nationality as well as genetics.

    However, I think it would be more meaningful to use European, Native American and African source populations with G25. I'm not an expert in Latin American genetics by any stretch, but a lot of people will have some mix of European, Native American and possibly African or Asian genes.

    AncestryDNA communities could be quite meaningful though in terms of finding genetic communities:

    https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/b...bbean-and-more

    The communities are in addition to so-called ethnicity estimates.
    Last edited by lana6765; 03-11-2021 at 11:47 PM.

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  11. #7
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    Not yet I'm just waiting on my machine to get fixed so I can work through some Latino samples. Then hopefully Davidski gets them uploaded.

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    Would love to see the Dominicans and Afro-Latino samples (including Brazilians) on an African pca plot.They would probably plot closest to intermediate Maghrebi samples and then Horners with some plotting near the coastal Maghrebis themselves.
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
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  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lana6765 View Post
    Actually I think Cuban and Venezuelan are ethnicities.

    Here is how ethnicity is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary:

    https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/64791...=ethnicity#eid

    2. Status in respect of membership of a group regarded as ultimately of common descent, or having a common national or cultural tradition; ethnic character.

    Ethnicity covers culture and nationality as well as genetics.

    However, I think it would be more meaningful to use European, Native American and African source populations with G25. I'm not an expert in Latin American genetics by any stretch, but a lot of people will have some mix of European, Native American and possibly African or Asian genes.

    AncestryDNA communities could be quite meaningful though in terms of finding genetic communities:

    https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/b...bbean-and-more

    The communities are in addition to so-called ethnicity estimates.
    They are ethnicities only if we consider things like language, culture and identity. I agree with that, but this a genetics discussion. I actually think Davidski is quite right in not including Latin American samples on Global 25 spreadsheet. It would basically skew the results for the vast majority of Latin Americans, if you take a DNA test you're interested in knowing which populations contributed to your genetic heritage, so no one in Brazil or Mexico wants to know that they can be modeled as half North Italian and half Puerto Rican, it actually doesn't mean anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Would love to see the Dominicans and Afro-Latino samples (including Brazilians) on an African pca plot.They would probably plot closest to intermediate Maghrebi samples and then Horners with some plotting near the coastal Maghrebis themselves.
    I believe most Brazilians with Global 25 would either plot with Southwestern Europeans, with Balkanites, Turks or in between Southwestern Europeans and North Africans in a global PCA plot (I'm talking about the ones I've seen). I think that including recently admixed samples in continental wide PCAs is quite mistaken, no serious researcher would do that, it isn't meaningful in any sense (the distances are actually much higher than what is shown in a 2 dimensions PCA and serious distortions can happen).
    Last edited by Caius Agrippa; 03-12-2021 at 04:55 AM.

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  17. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    They are ethnicities only if we consider things like language, culture and identity. I agree with that, but this a genetics discussion. I actually think Davidski is quite right in not including Latin American samples on Global 25 spreadsheet. It would basically skew the results for the vast majority of Latin Americans, if you take a DNA test you're interested in knowing which populations contributed to your genetic heritage, so no one in Brazil or Mexico wants to know that they can be modeled as half North Italian and half Puerto Rican, it actually doesn't mean anything.



    I believe most Brazilians with Global 25 would either plot with Southwestern Europeans, with Balkanites, Turks or in between Southwestern Europeans and North Africans in a global PCA plot (I'm talking about the ones I've seen). I think that including recently admixed samples in continental wide PCAs is quite mistaken, no serious researcher would do that, it isn't meaningful in any sense (the distances are actually much higher than what is shown in a 2 dimensions PCA and serious distortions can happen).
    Why would Afro-Brazilians plot next to Europeans or East Med populations.I am talking about black people and those with significant black admixture (more than 15% SSA) not white latinos

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