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Thread: Chitpavan Brahmins actually have foreign ancestry...?

  1. #1
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    Iran Sassanid Empire Greater Khorasan Pakistan India Iran Canada

    Chitpavan Brahmins actually have foreign ancestry...?

    https://sites.google.com/site/r2dnai...tpavan-brahmin

    "Chitpavan- brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste."

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    https://sites.google.com/site/r2dnai...tpavan-brahmin

    "Chitpavan- brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste."
    I have posted their results before, nothing special in it. Seems more like very closed group that preserved some traits.

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    Here are some:

    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 44.70
    2 Baloch 34.92
    3 Caucasian 7.93
    4 NE-Euro 7.65
    5 Siberian 1.62
    6 SW-Asian 1.02


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 3.939454
    2 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.998870
    3 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 4.224518
    4 meghawal_reich @ 4.465445
    5 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 5.042502
    6 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 5.175948
    7 vaish_reich @ 5.250383
    8 tn-brahmin_xing @ 5.466321
    9 rajasthani_harappa @ 5.755952
    10 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 5.771605
    11 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 5.802586
    12 gujarati_harappa @ 5.828471
    13 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 5.846401
    14 bengali-brahmin_harappa @ 6.107330
    15 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 6.291564
    16 ap-brahmin_xing @ 6.639966
    17 goan_harappa @ 6.973789
    18 kerala_harappa @ 7.325148
    19 kerala-christian_harappa @ 7.363348
    20 up-brahmin_harappa @ 7.376966

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% kol_metspalu +50% punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 2.005532


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% kashmiri-pandit_reich +25% tn-dalit_xing +25% up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.499714


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
    1 kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich + tn-dalit_xing + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.243757
    2 hakkipikki_metspalu + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.275191
    3 hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.289101
    4 gujarati-b_hapmap + kalash_hgdp + mala_reich + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.309760
    5 kalash_hgdp + mala_reich + meghawal_reich + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.315547
    6 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + mala_reich + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.330001
    7 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + north-kannadi_chaubey + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.347210
    8 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich @ 1.349097
    9 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.358317
    10 gujarati-b_hapmap + kalash_hgdp + tn-dalit_xing + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.387429
    11 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-b_hapmap + hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp @ 1.395906
    12 gujarati-b_hapmap + mala_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.412162
    13 kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich + north-kannadi_chaubey + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.413740
    14 kalash_hgdp + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + srivastava_reich + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.427290
    15 hakkipikki_metspalu + iyer-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.434897
    16 hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 1.439309
    17 kalash_hgdp + singapore-indian-c_sgvp + srivastava_reich + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.444674
    18 gujarati-b_hapmap + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.450946
    19 gujarati-b_hapmap + kashmiri-pandit_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.458667
    20 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + tamil-vishwakarma_harappa @ 1.459486



    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 43.99
    2 Baloch 38.34
    3 NE-Euro 7.53
    4 Caucasian 4.00
    5 Mediterranean 1.86
    6 Siberian 1.18


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 1.777949
    2 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 2.113418
    3 meghawal_reich @ 2.822150
    4 gujarati_harappa @ 2.920094
    5 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 4.143057
    6 vaish_reich @ 4.169301
    7 maharashtrian_harappa @ 4.353765
    8 meena_metspalu @ 4.616214
    9 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 4.660460
    10 tn-brahmin_xing @ 4.699156
    11 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 4.786814
    12 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 4.883310
    13 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 5.357078
    14 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 5.582417
    15 ap-brahmin_xing @ 5.786462
    16 oriya_harappa @ 5.789760
    17 goan_harappa @ 5.921493
    18 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 6.074199
    19 kerala-nair_harappa @ 6.281501
    20 bengali-brahmin_harappa @ 6.355941

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% gujarati-b_hapmap +50% up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.123274


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% iyengar-brahmin_harappa +25% oriya_harappa +25% punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 1.108135


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
    1 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-patel_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa @ 0.836921
    2 goan_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 0.878520
    3 gujarati-a_hapmap + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa + vaish_reich @ 0.885392
    4 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-a_hapmap + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa @ 0.905691
    5 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-patel_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi_harappa @ 0.910608
    6 goan_harappa + oriya_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 0.927743
    7 bengali-brahmin_harappa + gujarati-a_hapmap + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 0.944727
    8 oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 0.945912
    9 gujarati-b_hapmap + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 0.955521
    10 goan_harappa + meena_metspalu + oriya_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 0.964902
    11 gujarati_harappa + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 0.966689
    12 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-a_hapmap + oriya_harappa + punjabi_harappa @ 0.977181
    13 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-patel_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + vaish_reich @ 1.003405
    14 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-a_1000genomes + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 1.012033
    15 oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.018317
    16 meena_metspalu + oriya_harappa + tn-brahmin_xing + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.022124
    17 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa + vaish_reich @ 1.022163
    18 dharkar_metspalu + gujarati-b_hapmap + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.022186
    19 kerala-nair_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.028282
    20 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu + meena_metspalu + oriya_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.043013



    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 44.76
    2 Baloch 37.04
    3 NE-Euro 6.85
    4 Caucasian 4.64
    5 SW-Asian 1.93
    6 Beringian 1.62
    7 SE-Asian 1.39
    8 Mediterranean 1.04


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 meghawal_reich @ 2.284722
    2 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 2.920325
    3 gujarati_harappa @ 3.077925
    4 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.083271
    5 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 3.228814
    6 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 3.257058
    7 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 3.637413
    8 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 3.728543
    9 tn-brahmin_xing @ 3.801065
    10 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 3.983655
    11 vaish_reich @ 4.502646
    12 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 4.719385
    13 ap-brahmin_xing @ 4.742552
    14 rajasthani_harappa @ 5.367035
    15 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 5.468966
    16 goan_harappa @ 5.483601
    17 kerala-nair_harappa @ 5.539534
    18 meena_metspalu @ 5.940166
    19 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 6.247579
    20 oriya_harappa @ 6.299074

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% gujarati-b_hapmap +50% karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 2.037126


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% dharkar_metspalu +25% kerala-brahmin_harappa +25% punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.608299


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 andhra-pradesh_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.328318
    2 kerala-brahmin_harappa + lodi_reich + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.356374
    3 dusadh_metspalu + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.356447
    4 karnataka-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.464837
    5 iyer-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.495439
    6 kerala-brahmin_harappa + lodi_reich + oriya_harappa + punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 1.507452
    7 andhra-pradesh_harappa + gujarati-b_hapmap + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.522543
    8 kerala-brahmin_harappa + tn-brahmin_xing + up_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.527854
    9 kerala-brahmin_harappa + maharashtrian_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.529647
    10 karnataka_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.530028
    11 kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 1.530572
    12 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + lodi_reich + punjabi-jatt-sikh_harappa @ 1.534091
    13 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.542468
    14 kerala-brahmin_harappa + naidu_reich + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.544765
    15 kerala-brahmin_harappa + meghawal_reich + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.547127
    16 andhra-pradesh_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + singapore-indian-c_sgvp @ 1.553391
    17 andhra-pradesh_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + meena_metspalu + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.554191
    18 ap-brahmin_xing + iyer-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.555935
    19 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.559950
    20 kerala-brahmin_harappa + kerala-christian_harappa + oriya_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.568374



    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 46.59
    2 Baloch 37.69
    3 Caucasian 6.40
    4 NE-Euro 5.36
    5 SW-Asian 1.52
    6 SE-Asian 1.40


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 2.144547
    2 tn-brahmin_xing @ 2.312179
    3 meghawal_reich @ 2.585029
    4 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 2.875295
    5 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.012681
    6 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 3.119049
    7 goan_harappa @ 3.568926
    8 gujarati_harappa @ 3.588294
    9 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 3.688390
    10 rajasthani_harappa @ 3.931473
    11 kerala-nair_harappa @ 4.231517
    12 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 4.408216
    13 ap-brahmin_xing @ 4.505787
    14 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 4.997313
    15 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 5.208863
    16 kerala-christian_harappa @ 5.561763
    17 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 5.827770
    18 up_harappa @ 6.571961
    19 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 6.711966
    20 vaish_reich @ 6.793414

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu +50% meghawal_reich @ 1.940147


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% iyengar-brahmin_harappa +25% kashmiri-pandit_reich +25% velama_metspalu @ 1.666258


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 gujarati-b_hapmap + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.535582
    2 gujarati-a_hapmap + kalash_hgdp + srivastava_reich + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 1.565791
    3 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.590927
    4 punjabi-khatri_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.614972
    5 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kalash_hgdp + srivastava_reich + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 1.620147
    6 gujarati-b_hapmap + naidu_reich + pathan_hgdp + velama_metspalu @ 1.620198
    7 meghawal_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.627762
    8 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + velama_metspalu @ 1.666258
    9 pathan_hgdp + srivastava_reich + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.666583
    10 meghawal_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.669944
    11 punjabi_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.671297
    12 gujarati-b_hapmap + sindhi_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + vysya_reich @ 1.676873
    13 punjabi-khatri_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.677674
    14 gujarati-b_hapmap + pathan_hgdp + velama_metspalu + vysya_reich @ 1.678179
    15 naidu_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-c_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.680583
    16 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 1.682592
    17 kashmiri-pandit_reich + up-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.685797
    18 punjabi-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-c_sgvp + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.687436
    19 gujarati-b_hapmap + pathan_hgdp + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.697071
    20 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kurmi_metspalu + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 1.706009

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    Oh man, someone post that video of that Chitpavan Brahmin couple talking about their dna test results

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    https://sites.google.com/site/r2dnai...tpavan-brahmin

    "Chitpavan- brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste."
    The admixture and PC analyses reflected genetic association of Chitpavan-brahmin with Iranian, Ashkenazi-Jews (Turkey), Greeks (East Europe) and to some extent with Central Asian Turkish populations elucidating their distinct Nordic, “Scytho-Iranian” ancestry.
    It seems when they say Scytho, it actually means greek + turkey. wonder what actually is distinct Nordic?

    Looking at the study and findings.

    Regarding Admixture and its Dating,

    Western Eurasians admixture in western castes

    All four castes show very high (60-90%) indigenous genetic component. The Western Eurasian admixture ranged from 10 - 40%. Male-specific admixture from Mediterranean belt was highest (40 – 50%) in Chitpavan-brahmin; from Central Asia and East-Europe was 22 – 28% in Desasth-brahmin; and from Central Asia and West Asian was 20-25% in Maratha. Maternal gene flow from West Asians was prominent in Dhangar and Desasth-brahmin; European admixture was moderate in Chitpavan-brahmin.
    Possible time period as per them.

    The flourishing trade contacts with the technologically advance Western-Eurasian cultures such as Greece, Rome, and Iran resulted in exchange of food spices, cotton, leather-merchandise, and peacock-feathers during 1500 B.C. - 1200 A.D. period [14] and paved the way for immigration of white sailors/merchants in different time zones and growth of few Indo-European fusion groups. Bene-Israelis (100-525 A.D), Parsis (751 A.D), Anglo-Indians (15th century), and Indo-Portuguese (14th - 15th century) communities are settled in western coastal areas
    Their proposed time period.


    This also explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later
    amalgamation by Maratha

    Admixture timing?

    The four castes showed unimodal (bell-shaped) mismatch distributions. Tau value based upon the location of the mismatch distribution crest provides a rough time estimate of rapid expansion of population [43]. The estimated values were larger than 6.0 corresponding to expansion times of >52,000 YBP while Chitpavan-brahmin show a small value of 4.59 conforming to 39,000 YBP.

    Populations that have experienced a sudden or exponential growth or decline produce a smooth, uni-modal wave in the distribution of pairwise sequence differences (the mismatch distribution) corresponding to that event, whereby stable populations produce more steadily sloped (non-wave-like) distributions. For a uni-modal mismatch distribution, the mode is at the value of tau (τ), a moment estimator, which represents a unit of mutational time. Therefore, the time since population expansion (t) can be calculated by t=τ/2u, where u is the cumulative (across the sequence) probability of substitution.

    If Populations show unimodal (bell-shaped) mismatch distributions it means populations have experienced a sudden or exponential growth or decline. Like the four castes in the study. But, I don't totally understand this tau value as the time period it is suggesting means when admixture happened then it is really confusing or could be a calculation error. Those who are knowledgeable about this could clarify on this aspect.

    From the study on mismatch analysis,

    High rate of calculation errors in mismatch distribution analysis results in numerous false inferences of biological importance
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...20substitution.
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 03-25-2021 at 12:41 PM.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    Oh man, someone post that video of that Chitpavan Brahmin couple talking about their dna test results
    That guy removed it. I wish someone had saved it. It was really funny. The reality is Chitpavan Brahmins have bred or selected for some features exactly like South Indian Brahmins have selected for light skin. There isn't anything really special about them other than inbreeding.

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Here are some:

    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 44.70
    2 Baloch 34.92
    3 Caucasian 7.93
    4 NE-Euro 7.65
    5 Siberian 1.62
    6 SW-Asian 1.02


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 3.939454
    2 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.998870
    3 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 4.224518
    4 meghawal_reich @ 4.465445
    5 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 5.042502
    6 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 5.175948
    7 vaish_reich @ 5.250383
    8 tn-brahmin_xing @ 5.466321
    9 rajasthani_harappa @ 5.755952
    10 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 5.771605
    11 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 5.802586
    12 gujarati_harappa @ 5.828471
    13 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 5.846401
    14 bengali-brahmin_harappa @ 6.107330
    15 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 6.291564
    16 ap-brahmin_xing @ 6.639966
    17 goan_harappa @ 6.973789
    18 kerala_harappa @ 7.325148
    19 kerala-christian_harappa @ 7.363348
    20 up-brahmin_harappa @ 7.376966

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% kol_metspalu +50% punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 2.005532


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% kashmiri-pandit_reich +25% tn-dalit_xing +25% up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.499714


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
    1 kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich + tn-dalit_xing + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.243757
    2 hakkipikki_metspalu + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.275191
    3 hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.289101
    4 gujarati-b_hapmap + kalash_hgdp + mala_reich + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.309760
    5 kalash_hgdp + mala_reich + meghawal_reich + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.315547
    6 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + mala_reich + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.330001
    7 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + north-kannadi_chaubey + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.347210
    8 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich @ 1.349097
    9 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.358317
    10 gujarati-b_hapmap + kalash_hgdp + tn-dalit_xing + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.387429
    11 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-b_hapmap + hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp @ 1.395906
    12 gujarati-b_hapmap + mala_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.412162
    13 kalash_hgdp + meghawal_reich + north-kannadi_chaubey + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.413740
    14 kalash_hgdp + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + srivastava_reich + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.427290
    15 hakkipikki_metspalu + iyer-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.434897
    16 hakkipikki_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 1.439309
    17 kalash_hgdp + singapore-indian-c_sgvp + srivastava_reich + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.444674
    18 gujarati-b_hapmap + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.450946
    19 gujarati-b_hapmap + kashmiri-pandit_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tn-dalit_xing @ 1.458667
    20 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kalash_hgdp + tamil-vishwakarma_harappa @ 1.459486



    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 43.99
    2 Baloch 38.34
    3 NE-Euro 7.53
    4 Caucasian 4.00
    5 Mediterranean 1.86
    6 Siberian 1.18


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 1.777949
    2 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 2.113418
    3 meghawal_reich @ 2.822150
    4 gujarati_harappa @ 2.920094
    5 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 4.143057
    6 vaish_reich @ 4.169301
    7 maharashtrian_harappa @ 4.353765
    8 meena_metspalu @ 4.616214
    9 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 4.660460
    10 tn-brahmin_xing @ 4.699156
    11 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 4.786814
    12 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 4.883310
    13 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 5.357078
    14 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 5.582417
    15 ap-brahmin_xing @ 5.786462
    16 oriya_harappa @ 5.789760
    17 goan_harappa @ 5.921493
    18 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 6.074199
    19 kerala-nair_harappa @ 6.281501
    20 bengali-brahmin_harappa @ 6.355941

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% gujarati-b_hapmap +50% up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.123274


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% iyengar-brahmin_harappa +25% oriya_harappa +25% punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 1.108135


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
    1 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-patel_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa @ 0.836921
    2 goan_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 0.878520
    3 gujarati-a_hapmap + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa + vaish_reich @ 0.885392
    4 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-a_hapmap + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa @ 0.905691
    5 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-patel_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi_harappa @ 0.910608
    6 goan_harappa + oriya_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 0.927743
    7 bengali-brahmin_harappa + gujarati-a_hapmap + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 0.944727
    8 oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 0.945912
    9 gujarati-b_hapmap + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 0.955521
    10 goan_harappa + meena_metspalu + oriya_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 0.964902
    11 gujarati_harappa + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 0.966689
    12 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-a_hapmap + oriya_harappa + punjabi_harappa @ 0.977181
    13 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-patel_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + vaish_reich @ 1.003405
    14 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu + gujarati-a_1000genomes + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 1.012033
    15 oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.018317
    16 meena_metspalu + oriya_harappa + tn-brahmin_xing + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.022124
    17 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kashmiri-pandit_reich + oriya_harappa + vaish_reich @ 1.022163
    18 dharkar_metspalu + gujarati-b_hapmap + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.022186
    19 kerala-nair_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 1.028282
    20 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu + meena_metspalu + oriya_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.043013



    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 44.76
    2 Baloch 37.04
    3 NE-Euro 6.85
    4 Caucasian 4.64
    5 SW-Asian 1.93
    6 Beringian 1.62
    7 SE-Asian 1.39
    8 Mediterranean 1.04


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 meghawal_reich @ 2.284722
    2 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 2.920325
    3 gujarati_harappa @ 3.077925
    4 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.083271
    5 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 3.228814
    6 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 3.257058
    7 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 3.637413
    8 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 3.728543
    9 tn-brahmin_xing @ 3.801065
    10 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 3.983655
    11 vaish_reich @ 4.502646
    12 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 4.719385
    13 ap-brahmin_xing @ 4.742552
    14 rajasthani_harappa @ 5.367035
    15 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 5.468966
    16 goan_harappa @ 5.483601
    17 kerala-nair_harappa @ 5.539534
    18 meena_metspalu @ 5.940166
    19 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 6.247579
    20 oriya_harappa @ 6.299074

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% gujarati-b_hapmap +50% karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 2.037126


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% dharkar_metspalu +25% kerala-brahmin_harappa +25% punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.608299


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 andhra-pradesh_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.328318
    2 kerala-brahmin_harappa + lodi_reich + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.356374
    3 dusadh_metspalu + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.356447
    4 karnataka-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.464837
    5 iyer-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.495439
    6 kerala-brahmin_harappa + lodi_reich + oriya_harappa + punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 1.507452
    7 andhra-pradesh_harappa + gujarati-b_hapmap + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.522543
    8 kerala-brahmin_harappa + tn-brahmin_xing + up_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.527854
    9 kerala-brahmin_harappa + maharashtrian_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.529647
    10 karnataka_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.530028
    11 kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 1.530572
    12 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + lodi_reich + punjabi-jatt-sikh_harappa @ 1.534091
    13 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.542468
    14 kerala-brahmin_harappa + naidu_reich + oriya_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.544765
    15 kerala-brahmin_harappa + meghawal_reich + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.547127
    16 andhra-pradesh_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + oriya_harappa + singapore-indian-c_sgvp @ 1.553391
    17 andhra-pradesh_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + meena_metspalu + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.554191
    18 ap-brahmin_xing + iyer-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.555935
    19 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + up_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.559950
    20 kerala-brahmin_harappa + kerala-christian_harappa + oriya_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa @ 1.568374



    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 46.59
    2 Baloch 37.69
    3 Caucasian 6.40
    4 NE-Euro 5.36
    5 SW-Asian 1.52
    6 SE-Asian 1.40


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 2.144547
    2 tn-brahmin_xing @ 2.312179
    3 meghawal_reich @ 2.585029
    4 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 2.875295
    5 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.012681
    6 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 3.119049
    7 goan_harappa @ 3.568926
    8 gujarati_harappa @ 3.588294
    9 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 3.688390
    10 rajasthani_harappa @ 3.931473
    11 kerala-nair_harappa @ 4.231517
    12 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 4.408216
    13 ap-brahmin_xing @ 4.505787
    14 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 4.997313
    15 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 5.208863
    16 kerala-christian_harappa @ 5.561763
    17 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 5.827770
    18 up_harappa @ 6.571961
    19 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 6.711966
    20 vaish_reich @ 6.793414

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu +50% meghawal_reich @ 1.940147


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% iyengar-brahmin_harappa +25% kashmiri-pandit_reich +25% velama_metspalu @ 1.666258


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 gujarati-b_hapmap + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.535582
    2 gujarati-a_hapmap + kalash_hgdp + srivastava_reich + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 1.565791
    3 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.590927
    4 punjabi-khatri_harappa + up-kshatriya_metspalu + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.614972
    5 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kalash_hgdp + srivastava_reich + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 1.620147
    6 gujarati-b_hapmap + naidu_reich + pathan_hgdp + velama_metspalu @ 1.620198
    7 meghawal_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.627762
    8 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + velama_metspalu @ 1.666258
    9 pathan_hgdp + srivastava_reich + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.666583
    10 meghawal_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.669944
    11 punjabi_harappa + up-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.671297
    12 gujarati-b_hapmap + sindhi_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + vysya_reich @ 1.676873
    13 punjabi-khatri_harappa + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + singapore-indian-b_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.677674
    14 gujarati-b_hapmap + pathan_hgdp + velama_metspalu + vysya_reich @ 1.678179
    15 naidu_reich + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-c_sgvp + velama_metspalu @ 1.680583
    16 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu + iyengar-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 1.682592
    17 kashmiri-pandit_reich + up-brahmin_harappa + velama_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.685797
    18 punjabi-brahmin_harappa + singapore-indian-c_sgvp + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.687436
    19 gujarati-b_hapmap + pathan_hgdp + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 1.697071
    20 iyengar-brahmin_harappa + kurmi_metspalu + punjabi-khatri_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 1.706009
    I have seen a few of them in Pune, thought anything that was speculated about them. They are quite similar to the Coorgis, another group with exotic theories of origin, in terms of all these theories. And many have actually internalised those myths, will take some time before it dies out. Just because they sounds weird alone will not dispel them.
    These HW numbers look pretty much like any other South indian group. No surprises!

  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    It seems when they say Scytho, it actually means greek + turkey. wonder what actually is distinct Nordic?

    Looking at the study and findings.

    Regarding Admixture and its Dating,

    Western Eurasians admixture in western castes



    Possible time period as per them.



    Their proposed time period.


    This also explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later
    amalgamation by Maratha

    Admixture timing?







    If Populations show unimodal (bell-shaped) mismatch distributions it means populations have experienced a sudden or exponential growth or decline. Like the four castes in the study. But, I don't totally understand this tau value as the time period it is suggesting means when admixture happened then it is really confusing or could be a calculation error. Those who are knowledgeable about this could clarify on this aspect.

    From the study on mismatch analysis,



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...20substitution.
    I think the link I posted has 2 other studies as well.

  14. #9
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    mtDNA (M)
    U2b

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    I think the link I posted has 2 other studies as well.
    It's all anecdotal evidence. There is nothing special about them. y and mt DNA markers can often signal population bottlenecks. They are just slightly more Indo Aryan version of Southern Brahmins. They possibly had some Alpine adaptations like the Kashmiris, and Shimla Rajputs along with extensive inbreeding.

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  16. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    I think the link I posted has 2 other studies as well.
    I don't think if it looks anything like Turkish or Greek, the numbers which MdL posted have one kit with 7ish Caucasian with very low SW Asian and Med, and where the Med and SW Asian traces are > 1%, the caucasian dips significantly. What does that tell about the signals from the calculator?

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