Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9171819
Results 181 to 187 of 187

Thread: David W. Anthony Presentation on Steppe Genetics & Societal Organization (March 2021)

  1. #181
    Registered Users
    Posts
    6
    Sex

    I can't find this video anymore. Any thoughts on where to get it?

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Dryfee For This Useful Post:

     Hando (04-29-2021)

  3. #182
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,161
    Sex
    Location
    Brisbane
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T-P322 (T1a2b1)
    mtDNA (M)
    H6a1

    Australia Cornwall England Scotland Germany Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by Dryfee View Post
    I can't find this video anymore. Any thoughts on where to get it?
    Last week I had a message at that address that I think said something about copyright.
    Maybe they put it online for conference attendees not expecting the link to get out to others and first closed it down and then removed it.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Saetro For This Useful Post:

     Hando (04-29-2021)

  5. #183
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,291
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    Thank you for the grounded response, hoping we can get Western Steppe samples at some point. It’s worrisome that so far, all we have are high profile kurgan burials. It will be quite a day when L51 is found in the EBA steppe, however, correct me if I’m wrong, but was the L51 found in Afanasievo due to contamination, or was it actually legitimate?
    Both FTDNA and YFull (and others like Ted K) looked at the Afansievo sample and concluded the P310/L52 call. This was not just on one SNP but based multiple SNPs in the P310/L52 block. Upstream SNPs also supported the calls. Downstream SNP negative calls also supported this.

    This leaves the only fear as that a handler contaminated the sample. This was a P310/L52* call. This is very, very rare in modern people. I should probably add another “rare”.

    Other collaborative evidence include:
    David Anthony says Autosomal DNA results have people in Slovenia and Mongolia(Afansievo) only 5-7 generation away from a common ancestor with a Steppes ancient sample.
    Archaeology artifacts support the rapid appearance of Steppe culture in Afansievo as well as to the west into Central Europe.

    I know it hard to accept P310 to the east but these people were very mobile and apparently not fearful while being well able to defend themselves and proliferate.

    I am not saying they were nice guys.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     dosas (04-22-2021),  dsm (04-24-2021),  Hando (04-29-2021),  JMcB (04-22-2021),  Ryukendo (04-22-2021)

  7. #184
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    4,850
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerMW View Post
    This leaves the only fear as that a handler contaminated the sample. This was a P310/L52* call. This is very, very rare in modern people. I should probably add another “rare”.
    It's hard to say how partial modern contamination might affect a result like this.

    How do we know that the person who contaminated the sample belonged to P310/L52*, rather than something much more derived?

    I think we can all agree that it would be better if this sample wasn't contaminated.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     dsm (04-24-2021),  ffoucart (05-07-2021),  Hando (04-29-2021),  JMcB (04-22-2021),  Ryukendo (04-22-2021)

  9. #185
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,291
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    It's hard to say how partial modern contamination might affect a result like this.

    How do we know that the person who contaminated the sample belonged to P310/L52*, rather than something much more derived?

    I think we can all agree that it would be better if this sample wasn't contaminated.
    Calls like these are not 100% absolute so there is always a chance something is awry. However, we are getting to a very confident situation.

    FTDNA told me there were ancestral calls for L151 and other downstream SNPs making this a true P310/L52*.

    Nothing is 100% certain but we are getting into realm this sample is very, very likely really P310/L52*. L52 itself was not covered so there is a chance this is a break of this phylogenetic block.

    I don't think Ted Kandell would mind me quoting him. He wrote, "However, he also has 1 derived read for the R-L52 SNP PF6544/CTS7650/FGC44/S1164 in shotgun sequencing, a C to T transition and which might be the result of DNA damage, and also 1 derived read for R-L52 SNP PF6546;S129;P310 in shotgun sequencing an A to G transition, and most importantly, 6 derived reads for S128;PF6545;P311, 3 in shotgun sequencing and 3 in 1240K capture array sequencing.
    Therefore, he is certainly R-L52."

    A partial contamination that hit P310, P311 but did not affect any downstream SNPs? What are the odds?

    An FTDNA research guy suggested the industry should only have women handling testing of Y DNA purposed samples. Sounds like a good idea albeit not very practical.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 04-22-2021 at 04:33 PM.

  10. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     Andour (04-23-2021),  Dewsloth (04-22-2021),  dsm (04-24-2021),  ffoucart (05-07-2021),  Garimund (04-22-2021),  GoldenHind (04-22-2021),  Hando (04-29-2021),  JMcB (04-22-2021),  Kopfjäger (04-22-2021),  parasar (04-29-2021),  Riverman (04-30-2021)

  11. #186
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,161
    Sex
    Location
    Brisbane
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T-P322 (T1a2b1)
    mtDNA (M)
    H6a1

    Australia Cornwall England Scotland Germany Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by TigerMW View Post
    An FTDNA research guy suggested the industry should only have women handling testing of Y DNA purposed samples. Sounds like a good idea albeit not very practical.
    Every history show I see with bones in it has an anthropologist handing them with bare hands.
    Using sterile gloves every step of the way would be a start to reducing human contamination.
    I have done it in another occupation.
    It's not overly onerous. It's being professional. And respectful of your material.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Saetro For This Useful Post:

     Alain (05-01-2021),  Andour (04-29-2021),  JMcB (04-29-2021),  razyn (04-29-2021),  Strider99 (04-29-2021)

  13. #187
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,718
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    Every history show I see with bones in it has an anthropologist handing them with bare hands.
    Using sterile gloves every step of the way would be a start to reducing human contamination.
    I have done it in another occupation.
    It's not overly onerous. It's being professional. And respectful of your material.
    In principle I would tend to agree, but knowing how the work being done on the ground, in real life, its probably kind of over the top, especially since the contamination won't just come form the bare hands anyway. Don't forget where the bones are coming from, that's not exactly a sterile environment either, so you just have to develop methods for purifying a sample. Best is always to get material from below the surface, like drilling into a tooth or bone. And honestly, with more bones being found and the samples coming closer to historical periods, we're not exactly talking about rare and otherwise valuable findings, but masses of material which just need to be catalogued and examined. Its not like we're talking about rare, well preserved human remains from before the Neolithic. This is really about the mass. And testing too will have to be mass-focused, rather than paying too much attention to every single find, on the long run.
    So we just need safe methods to get rid of low coverage and contaminated results by default, and progress being made in this direction every year. So I'm quite optimistic about this even without tormenting our brave diggers in the field all too much

    But yes, sometimes a little bit more carefulness is still not wrong.
    Last edited by Riverman; 04-30-2021 at 02:22 PM.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Alain (05-01-2021),  JMcB (04-30-2021),  Saetro (04-30-2021)

Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9171819

Similar Threads

  1. Societal Structure of Ion Age Estonians
    By Zelto in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 238
    Last Post: Today, 06:21 PM
  2. Replies: 121
    Last Post: 07-08-2020, 07:59 AM
  3. Eurasian Steppe Population Genetics
    By MikkaK in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 305
    Last Post: 05-11-2018, 03:21 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-07-2015, 04:52 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •