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Thread: Finnish matches in Russian people

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    Finnish matches in Russian people

    Hello, I want to ask why do some Russians have distant Finnish cousins on commercial tests. I am 12,5% Siberian Russian by known ancestry ( + 6,25% Southern Russian ) and my mother is 25% Siberian Russian ( + 12,5% Southern Russian ). I do have about 85 matches from Finland on 23andme, almost all these matches are fully Finnish and match me on same segments, they are all successfully triangulated. My mother has even more fully genetically Finnish triangulated matches on Gedmatch and MyHeritage. I want to ask about reason why do Russians from some regions have these matches probably without having recent Finnish heritage?

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     boilermeschew827 (03-27-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyrylBojarski View Post
    Hello, I want to ask why do some Russians have distant Finnish cousins on commercial tests. I am 12,5% Siberian Russian by known ancestry ( + 6,25% Southern Russian ) and my mother is 25% Siberian Russian ( + 12,5% Southern Russian ). I do have about 85 matches from Finland on 23andme, almost all these matches are fully Finnish and match me on same segments, they are all successfully triangulated. My mother has even more fully genetically Finnish triangulated matches on Gedmatch and MyHeritage. I want to ask about reason why do Russians from some regions have these matches probably without having recent Finnish heritage?
    Likely due to ancient Baltic Finn or Finnic ties.

    My maternal grandfather was born outside of St. Petersburg, Russia - historic Ingria in a Finnic sounding village. On MyHeritage he has 637 Finnish matches, all varying in closeness, but many at the 3rd-5th cousin range. On 23andMe, he has 37 with 18 of his matches having claimed 4 grandparents from Finland at the 4C level.

    It could also be more recent, as Finland and Russia had several conflicts over the last few centuries. Some of those NW Russian regions have/had more Finn input during those times, most likely. Karelia and Leningrad Oblast make sense to me.

    Anyways, it could be recent or ancient. I also have maternal chromosomes 3 and 11 painted Finnish, I have plenty of Finnish matches that are common with my grandfather.

    Regarding our own history, I cannot confirm any ancestor beyond my great grandparents - not enough accessible Russian records and the first half of the 20th century complicates those records.
    AncestryDNA (2020 update): Eastern European and Russia 33%, Germanic Europe 32%, Sweden 10%, Norway 7%, Baltics 7%, France 5%, Scotland 4%, Finland 1%, Malta 1%

    23andMe (v5.9): French and German 41.1%, Eastern European 38%, Scandinavian 8%, Finnish 1.6%, British and Irish 0.8%, BNWE 10.2%, North African 0.2%, Broadly European 0.1%

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    I know about two possible explainations.
    Firstly, it may come from common german ancestor for some of finns and russians, this may be ancient one.
    Secondly, one of your ancestor might come from Russia North region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_North and that would be recent match i think.

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    It's mainly people from northern Russia who share IBD with Finns. Perhaps they were over-represented among settlers in Siberia.

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     CyrylBojarski (03-27-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by boilermeschew827 View Post
    Likely due to ancient Baltic Finn or Finnic ties.

    My maternal grandfather was born outside of St. Petersburg, Russia - historic Ingria in a Finnic sounding village. On MyHeritage he has 637 Finnish matches, all varying in closeness, but many at the 3rd-5th cousin range. On 23andMe, he has 37 with 18 of his matches having claimed 4 grandparents from Finland at the 4C level.

    It could also be more recent, as Finland and Russia had several conflicts over the last few centuries. Some of those NW Russian regions have/had more Finn input during those times, most likely. Karelia and Leningrad Oblast make sense to me.

    Anyways, it could be recent or ancient. I also have maternal chromosomes 3 and 11 painted Finnish, I have plenty of Finnish matches that are common with my grandfather.

    Regarding our own history, I cannot confirm any ancestor beyond my great grandparents - not enough accessible Russian records and the first half of the 20th century complicates those records.
    Thank you for answer. A lot of Finnish matches your grandfather has. My Russian ancestors from Siberia were likely settlers from the same region. Do you think it is likely from ancient times? Most of our Finnish matches we have on Gedmatch look like people from East Finland ( East Finnish oracle results ). I score 4% Finland and my mother scores 14% Finland on DNA.Land, it shows part of our DNA is related to Finns. I am interested how much % does your grandfather score here, it is not a perfect test, but usually Russians from northern regions score a lot of Finnish percentage here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyrylBojarski View Post
    Hello, I want to ask why do some Russians have distant Finnish cousins on commercial tests.
    I'd guess that there are many reasons for this. NW Russians, for instance, seem to have East Finnic ancestors related to modern groups such as Karelians and Vepsians. This is quite understandable, as even in quite remote areas such as in Archangel Oblast , from the Finnish perspective, were people speaking Finnic dialects. These features are possibly also visible in studies based on Starovertsi, even in Siberia. That being said, also fex in Volga area, for some reason, are some people with obvious Finnic roots, i.e. not related to some ancient BA Uralic connection. Not only Russians, but also people such as Bashkirs, Chuvashes and Volga Tatars. Difficult to say what's the reason for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Finn View Post
    I'd guess that there are many reasons for this. NW Russians, for instance, seem to have East Finnic ancestors related to modern groups such as Karelians and Vepsians. This is quite understandable, as even in quite remote areas such as in Archangel Oblast , from the Finnish perspective, were people speaking Finnic dialects. These features are possibly also visible in studies based on Starovertsi, even in Siberia. That being said, also fex in Volga area, for some reason, are some people with obvious Finnic roots, i.e. not related to some ancient BA Uralic connection. Not only Russians, but also people such as Bashkirs, Chuvashes and Volga Tatars. Difficult to say what's the reason for this.
    This is something I've personally noticed when examining my matches on FTDNA, 23andMe, and MyHeritage. A lot of the matches I share with Volga-Tatars and even some Bashkirs on FTDNA, for example, are Finns with seemingly zero connection to the Volga area or even Russia.

    I have no known ancestry from North Russia and for some reason, Finns are my second most common matches. I agree that the BA Uralic connection doesn't explain this particular phenomenon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CyrylBojarski View Post
    Thank you for answer. A lot of Finnish matches your grandfather has. My Russian ancestors from Siberia were likely settlers from the same region. Do you think it is likely from ancient times? Most of our Finnish matches we have on Gedmatch look like people from East Finland ( East Finnish oracle results ). I score 4% Finland and my mother scores 14% Finland on DNA.Land, it shows part of our DNA is related to Finns. I am interested how much % does your grandfather score here, it is not a perfect test, but usually Russians from northern regions score a lot of Finnish percentage here.
    We don't have our data on DNALand, but he has taken the AncestryDNA, 23andMe and MyHeritage tests and he has his data on yourdnaportal.

    Before DNALand shut down and re-emerged, I had my data up there and had 12% Finland; so I imagine my grandfather would've had more.

    On AncestryDNA, his results are:
    64% Eastern European and Russia
    26% Baltic
    8% Finland
    2% Sweden

    MyHeritage yields:
    64.7% Baltic
    26.1% Eastern European
    4.8% Irish and Scottish
    3.1% Finnish
    1.3% Filipino and Malay

    23andMe:
    96.2% Eastern European
    3.7% Finnish
    0.1% Unassigned

    I don't know which one is most accurate for him. 23andMe lumps Baltic and Slavic together, while AncestryDNA and MyHeritage are extreme opposites in terms of Slavic versus Baltic assigned.

    I do know he is I2a-Din (CTS5966), so his direct paternal line isn't Finnic. That's not to say there wasn't any ancient or recent input. It's hard to say in our case. Given the area my grandfather was born and his clearly Slavic surname (-ov), he could have had a great grandparent that Finnish or possibly it could just be ancient admix. His mother's surname was (-ova).

    I've been in contact with several matches from Tver and St. Petersburg. The one from Tver has a long documented tree strictly from the Tver region, with Finnish assigned as well. They are under the assumption that this was likely a more ancient connection. The match from St. Petersburg had a Finnish grandma. I guess that's why it's hard to say how recent a Finnish connection may be, IMO.

    His closest match on 23andMe is a 0.9% match, no idea how we match. She has 8.5% Finnish and all of her grandparents are listed from Russia. On AncestryDNA, her paternal cousin is tested and is 19% Finland.

    edit - I'd add that our close match on 23andMe has about 1% Siberian assigned. Prior to 23andMe's past updates, my grandfather and I had very minor Siberian as well. Perhaps one day I can find some connection.
    Last edited by boilermeschew827; 03-27-2021 at 07:38 PM.
    AncestryDNA (2020 update): Eastern European and Russia 33%, Germanic Europe 32%, Sweden 10%, Norway 7%, Baltics 7%, France 5%, Scotland 4%, Finland 1%, Malta 1%

    23andMe (v5.9): French and German 41.1%, Eastern European 38%, Scandinavian 8%, Finnish 1.6%, British and Irish 0.8%, BNWE 10.2%, North African 0.2%, Broadly European 0.1%

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    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    I agree that the BA Uralic connection doesn't explain this particular phenomenon.
    Some Viking or even Pre Viking Age traders? Novgorodian Ushkuiniks? Captives i.e. slaves of Russo-Swedish including later Finland, wars? It is very difficult to understand why would fex a Chuvash have a Karelian i.e. East Finnic forefather. Why, on the other hand, would a Karelian captive end up living in Klyazma area, in the former Meryan (?) territory, instead of some other place?

    NW Russia is an other story. I once contacted my Russian matches at Gedmatch and quite many of them were born or related people living in Archangel Oblast or nearby. People related to former Karelians and Vepsians, most certainly, because I'm too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boilermeschew827 View Post
    I've been in contact with several matches from Tver and St. Petersburg. The one from Tver has a long documented tree strictly from the Tver region, with Finnish assigned as well. They are under the assumption that this was likely a more ancient connection.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tver_Karelians

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