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Thread: New Kazakh samples

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Interesting how a ghost of him (removing Slab_Grave_EIA) compares to the ghost of Meggido_outliners and a ghost of Ror. We are getting closer and closer to BA Indo-Aryans now.
    What do you think their ancestry proportions will be like when they are finally found? I haven't been keeping up with the gigantic South Asia thread on the topic. Is it now the consensus that they would have acquired substantial BMAC ancestry before moving into South Asia?
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  2. #252
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    Also very interesting there is a Greek sample at Ftdna at the F1417 branch and under BY32037 but BY32030- and BY153444- (ALN005, Tatars/Bashkirs). So would get his own F1417/Pre-F1417 branch at Yfull. Maybe from Abashevo groups pushing into the western steppes (Babino) or from West Asia (Mitanni?) but both theories are of course just speculation.


    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...name=R-BY32037

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  4. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    What do you think their ancestry proportions will be like when they are finally found? I haven't been keeping up with the gigantic South Asia thread on the topic. Is it now the consensus that they would have acquired substantial BMAC ancestry before moving into South Asia?
    It seems they picked a lot of KGZ_BA-like (BMAC-like but with a lot of WSHG and even some Steppe_EBA) ancestry in the Inner Asian Mountain corridor but not that much of ancestry from more classical BMAC groups in Gonur, Sappali_Tepe and other proto-urban centres of BMAC (excluding the outliners with Central_Steppe_EBA ancestry). That is maybe why also formal models with BMAC genomes failed for South Asians first because they used more western shifted BMAC groups. Seemingly Indo-Aryans arriving in West Asia and South Asia were still quite steppe rich (up to 50-70% Steppe_MLBA with the rest being KGZ_BA-like). But for South Asia we can expect several waves of Indo-Aryans with some groups picking much more BMAC ancestry in Central Asia especially in Afghanistan (Swat_IA Indo-Aryans needing a source with much more BMAC than Proto-Rors and Megiddo_outliners)

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  6. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    There are seemingly also Uyghurs or Uzbeks under F1417. Was recently posted here and i guess the sample is rather Uyghur than Uzbek because it was tested at Chinese 23Mofang. Would not be surprised if some tarim mummies turn out to be F1417.
    Most likely a Uyghur: close match is an HGDP Uyghur kit on GEDmatch, followed by a match with a similar Uyghur-Tajik ratio, and an Azeri.
    Target: Kapisa_scaled
    Distance: 1.7453% / 0.01745296
    44.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
    35.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
    18.0 KAZ_Ak_Moustafa_MLBA1
    2.6 MNG_East_N

    Mitochondrial Haplogroup: R30b found in Shahr-I-Sokhta_BA1 subclades found in Swat IA:Leobanr, Katelai & Barikot Historic.

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  8. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    It seems they picked a lot of KGZ_BA-like (BMAC-like but with a lot of WSHG and even some Steppe_EBA) ancestry in the Inner Asian Mountain corridor but not that much of ancestry from more classical BMAC groups in Gonur, Sappali_Tepe and other proto-urban centres of BMAC (excluding the outliners with Central_Steppe_EBA ancestry). That is maybe why also formal models with BMAC genomes failed for South Asians first because they used more western shifted BMAC groups. Seemingly Indo-Aryans arriving in West Asia and South Asia were still quite steppe rich (up to 50-70% Steppe_MLBA with the rest being KGZ_BA-like). But for South Asia we can expect several waves of Indo-Aryans with some groups picking much more BMAC ancestry in Central Asia especially in Afghanistan (Swat_IA Indo-Aryans needing a source with much more BMAC than Proto-Rors and Megiddo_outliners)
    I compared the Megiddo outlier to the Ror on G25 since they have similar steppe/central asian/south asian ancestry and came to the same conclusions a while back. The BMAC-like ancestry predominantly came from eneolithic farmers but mediated through later Central Asian pastoralist populations rather than genuine BMAC ancestry. But the Megiddo outliers on the other hand seem to prefer more of a BMAC-like source. Perhaps an indication of an early split, where they both absorbed two different substrates? It's hard to tell with very samples of course, but if we find more Mitanni related samples and this pattern persists, well remember this comment I guess.

    This also fits with the Rigvedic culture quite decently. They definitely had the Central sian influence with them but they were still agro-pastoralist peoples with very much a traditional Indo-European lifestyle. Compared to the Avestans which were more sedentary, and had massive cultural shifts away from the traditional Indo-European or Indo-Iranian lifestyle if you will.

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  10. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    I'm sure CopperAxe will find this interesting:
    So I took a look at these samples because one of the eastern outlier and two of the mixed eastern outliers were from the two Korgantas sites.

    The outliers all look pretty Central Mongolian to me, admixed or predominantly Ulaanzuukh/slab grave with some siberian and steppe_mlba mixed in there.

    BDY003 on the other hand is pretty interesting for two reasons; a small amount of BMAC ancestry which is interesting because the BDY001 sample shows a decent amount of it, and as well as some (<10%) ancestry that looks like it could be out of China. Shimao_LN is the preferred proxy everytime until I add NPL_Mebrak.

    Target: KAZ_Korgantas_IA:BDY003
    Distance: 2.9005% / 0.02900473
    48.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    38.4 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
    9.4 NPL_Mebrak_2125BP
    2.4 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    1.4 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    0.0 CHN_Shimao_LN
    0.0 MNG_Ulaanzukh_LBA_2
    0.0 RUS_Baikal_BA

    Compared to:

    Target: KAZ_Korgantas_IA_o1:BDY001
    Distance: 1.9328% / 0.01932792
    29.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    27.4 MNG_Ulaanzukh_LBA_2
    15.8 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    15.8 RUS_Baikal_BA
    11.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    0.0 CHN_Shimao_LN
    0.0 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
    0.0 NPL_Mebrak_2125BP


    BDY003 has a genetic profile that is pretty much what you'd expect of Iron age nomads of the Altai-Sayan, and doesn't have that much ancestry from BMAC-admixed Indo-Iranians like many other contemporary steppe samples in the region. But he possibly had a small amount of ancestry not found anywhere near that region, but something much further to the south. Not saying that this proves the theory about the Korgantas culture, but it's interesting!
    Last edited by CopperAxe; 04-19-2021 at 06:42 PM.

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  12. #257
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    Target: HUN_Hun_elite_Antiquity:HUN001
    Distance: 3.6125% / 0.03612508
    46.6 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    24.8 CHN_Western_Liao_River_BA
    16.6 Sarmatian_RUS_Pokrovka
    12.0 Saka_Tian_Shan
    0.0 CZE_Early_Slav
    0.0 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave


    The elite Hun sample from Hungary, also very interesting.
    Last edited by CopperAxe; 04-19-2021 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Slightly better fits

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  14. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    By the way, KZL004 is labeled as Kyzyl_EIA but the sample is dated to 1350 bc and labeled as LBA in the article. Considering it's ancestry is like 95% steppe_mlba, the LBA dating seems accurate.

    Also if I'm already being nitpicky I don't think the Aral-Caspian samples from Bisoba and Aigirly should be labelled Sarmatians, but then again they are labelled as Sarmatians in the article (incorrectly imo).

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  16. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    Target: HUN_Hun_elite_Antiquity:HUN001
    Distance: 3.6125% / 0.03612508
    46.6 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    24.8 CHN_Western_Liao_River_BA
    16.6 Sarmatian_RUS_Pokrovka
    12.0 Saka_Tian_Shan
    0.0 CZE_Early_Slav
    0.0 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave


    The elite Hun sample from Hungary, also very interesting.
    Can he be ancestor of Attila the Hun? The Attila is near contemporary to him.

  17. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    Also if I'm already being nitpicky I don't think the Aral-Caspian samples from Bisoba and Aigirly should be labelled Sarmatians, but then again they are labelled as Sarmatians in the article (incorrectly imo).
    How do you think they should be described?
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