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Thread: New R1a paper by Underhill et al.

  1. #1
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    New R1a paper by Underhill et al.

    Could a knowledgeable person please compare the FTDNA R1a project categories with those in this paper:
    The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a
    Peter A Underhill et al.
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html

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    The Bedouins carrying Z282 at that amount is pretty interesting. But I'm going to assume that this is a random ancestor and all 5 samples are from that lineage.

    Also it would have been nice to release all the Y-DNA information from the study. I really get irritated when they don't show the other frequencies.
    Last edited by Tomasso29; 03-26-2014 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    Could a knowledgeable person please compare the FTDNA R1a project categories with those in this paper:
    The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a
    Peter A Underhill et al.
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html
    The R1a guys can't really complain after this one. Seems to be more thorough research and more data than anything I have seen for R1b so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    The R1a guys can't really complain after this one. Seems to be more thorough research and more data than anything I have seen for R1b so far.
    The R1b guys should not be complaining either, it could be worse

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    The R1a guys can't really complain after this one. Seems to be more thorough research and more data than anything I have seen for R1b so far.
    I'm wondering if they'll say the paper is wrong.

    Or maybe it's me misreading a diagram in the paper. That's why I asked for an interpretation.

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    The interpretation seems reasonable enough going through the supplementary. Particularly with respect to their conclusion;

    we conclude that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran.
    Note in Supplementary Figure 4 that;

    a) The upstream paragroups in R1a-M17 (R1a*-M420, R1a1*-SRY10831.2) all cluster fairly close together, and
    b) The largely European-specific subclade Z282 has drifted off (literally and figuratively) in its' own direction westwards

    If R1a-M17 had its' origins elsewhere in Eurasia separated from this region by time and space, we'd expect some distance on the PCA between the basal markers (i.e. R1a1*-SRY10831.2 exactly intermediate between R1a*-M420 and some other location). We don't see that.

    Instead, the map suggests most of R1a's prehistoric development happened in one core area and Z282 etc. (European), M582 (Ashkenazi-Middle Eastern) and Z2125 (Central Asia) sprouted out at various points in time. Of course, this is what the authors are alluding to.

    I've only had time to consult with the first, second and fourth supplementary files properly, but I won't be surprised if the other data supports that scenario. I've been tentatively advocating an origin of R1a somewhere around West Asia (I included the Caucasus) for quite some time based on the parahaplogroup data from various papers. Looks like that perspective has just received some direct support.

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    DMXX, when you interpret Figure 2, is Z95 (whatever that is in FTDNA terminology) the root of all those branches?

    If so, Z2125 is not downstream of Z93, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    DMXX, when you interpret Figure 2, is Z95 (whatever that is in FTDNA terminology) the root of all those branches?

    If so, Z2125 is not downstream of Z93, correct?
    Partially; from examining the diagram it appears at the most basal level you have the root being between Z93* and Z95. I'm a little behind, but I do believe Z95 is an equivalent marker to Z94, which is under Z93.

    Therefore, all of the markers shown in Supplementary Figure 2 have to be downstream of Z93. This agrees with the phylogeny shown above.

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    For the table of frequencies per ethnic group I don't find the equivalence in the haplotrees (isogg,yfull,morley) for

    M558 I suppose it is Z280
    Z95
    Z2125
    M434
    M780
    M582
    M560

    Could you help me ?

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    Very interesting paper, they could make the same for the other haplogroups. I think they would find the same geographical root in Eastern Turkey and in Iran also for the development of J1.

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