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Thread: mt-D1j, the hallmark of Native America, was found in slab grave in Mongolia

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard23 View Post
    Every evidence has many interpretations, which one is more reasonable? In my opinion, D1j is a subclad of D1, and D1j of Mongolia is the evidence of out of America, because it is more natural to let most people stay in the same place and let a few people cross the geographical barrier.
    If so, when do you propose this migration happened then?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_H View Post
    If so, when do you propose this migration happened then?
    The TMRCA of D1j is about 10,000 years. I noticed that most of the Y haplotypes of Ulaanzuuk/Slab Grave culture are Q-M120, and there is a Peruvian sample separated from Chinese branch 6000 years ago on Q-M120 tree, so I roughly estimated that this population left America about 6000 years ago. However, the above samples of D1 have been questioned, so the Slab-Grave D1j may also be a misunderstanding.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard23 View Post
    The TMRCA of D1j is about 10,000 years. I noticed that most of the Y haplotypes of Ulaanzuuk/Slab Grave culture are Q-M120, and there is a Peruvian sample separated from Chinese branch 6000 years ago on Q-M120 tree, so I roughly estimated that this population left America about 6000 years ago. However, the above samples of D1 have been questioned, so the Slab-Grave D1j may also be a misunderstanding.
    Q-M120 is not uncommon in northern China (I know it's relatively high in Shandong for example and I think something like 3-5% in the north overall) It has only been found once in the Americas and specifically in that Peruvian sample. Is the distribution not odd if it was a back migration from the Americas? You'd expect to see it more in the north too,unless there was population replacement.

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     Howard23 (04-19-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebizur View Post
    I think the assignment of those Chinese mitochondrial haplotypes to haplogroup D1j1 is erroneous.

    They do seem to belong to haplogroup D (5178A 16362C) > haplogroup D4 (3010A 8414T 14668T), but I do not recognize them as belonging to any well-known subclade of haplogroup D4.
    They are chip genotype samples, not mtDNA full sequencing samples, so the mutation accuracy is not high. not surprise assigned to wrong haplogroups.

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  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_H View Post
    Q-M120 is not uncommon in northern China (I know it's relatively high in Shandong for example and I think something like 3-5% in the north overall) It has only been found once in the Americas and specifically in that Peruvian sample. Is the distribution not odd if it was a back migration from the Americas? You'd expect to see it more in the north too,unless there was population replacement.
    I don't know much about that Peruvian sample. Maybe I misjudged his family history. The population distribution may be affected by the survivor bias, because native Americans suffered from the "post Columbian" crisis, while those who left America in the early days thrived. There is no general algorithm to determine where the origin is. Most of the descendants of Q-M120 are in China, but Chinese scholars do not emphasize that the origin of Q-M120 is in China.

    We reconstructed a highly revised phylogenetic tree of haplogroup Q-M120 with age estimates. Additionally, we performed a comprehensive phylogeographic analysis of this lineage including 15,007 samples from 440 populations in eastern Eurasia. Results: We revealed an ancient connection of this lineage with populations in Siberia. However, this paternal lineage experienced an in-situ expansion between 5,000 and 3,000 years ago in northwestern China. Ancient populations with high frequencies of Q-M120 were involved in the formation of ancient Huaxia populations before 2,000 years ago; this haplogroup eventually became one of the founding paternal lineages of modern Han populations.

  8. #16
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    I just found out one of the East Pamir Kyrgyz samples MF522876 (EPK151) from "Mitochondrial Genomes Uncover the Maternal History of the Pamir Populations" was also assigned to D1j1.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore...1?report=fasta
    Last edited by Shuzam87; 05-12-2021 at 06:16 AM.

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  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebizur View Post
    I think the assignment of those Chinese mitochondrial haplotypes to haplogroup D1j1 is erroneous.

    They do seem to belong to haplogroup D (5178A 16362C) > haplogroup D4 (3010A 8414T 14668T), but I do not recognize them as belonging to any well-known subclade of haplogroup D4.
    Actually these 4 samples couldn't be assigned to D1j1 missing the C15868T mutation but could still be assigned to D1j matching the T152C and T16311C mutations.
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D1j/

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuzam87 View Post
    Actually these 4 samples couldn't be assigned to D1j1 missing the C15868T mutation but could still be assigned to D1j matching the T152C and T16311C mutations.
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D1j/
    As Megalophias has written in a comment on the first page of this thread, the Han Chinese mitochondrial haplotypes that you have presented do not share the defining mutations of haplogroup D1: the Han haplotypes exhibit neither a C2092T nor a T16325C transition.

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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuzam87 View Post
    I just found out one of the East Pamir Kyrgyz samples MF522876 (EPK151) from "Mitochondrial Genomes Uncover the Maternal History of the Pamir Populations" was also assigned to D1j1.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore...1?report=fasta
    The mtDNA of EPK151 (GenBank ID MF522876), who is an ethnic Kyrgyz from Taxkorgan, Xinjiang, China, has already been placed on the YFull mtree under haplogroup D4j1b*.

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     Howard23 (05-12-2021),  Megalophias (05-12-2021),  Shuzam87 (05-12-2021)

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