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Thread: Uploaded 23andme v5 to GEDMATCH & to MyHeritage - totally different MH matches in GM!

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    Uploaded 23andme v5 to GEDMATCH & to MyHeritage - totally different MH matches in GM!

    Hi guys, I made a post on this on the 23andme forum, but I thought it might be worth posting here to see if other MyHeritage users have noticed similar anomalies. Basically, I uploaded the 23andme v5 (tested September, 2020), to GEDMATCH, and later to MyHeritage when they had their free tools offer a few weeks ago. The problem is, the vast majority of matches that are marked MyHeritage on GEDMATCH, do not appear on the same 23andme v5 upload to MyHeritage! If I order GEDMATCH by segment size, some of the matches (very few) with larger segments i.e. above 16cM do show up on MyHeritage, but it seems most below that do not (I have not checked them all obviously).
    It also seems notable that the MyHeritage matches on GEDMATCH, I can say, were surprising to me, as they seemed to have sign of Volga German links, with many Russians, a few Czechs, Georgians, Polish, and significant number of German and Brazilian/Argentinian matches which were places where Volga Germans were known to settle. So, is there something peculiar about Volga German's DNA, in that they are perhaps particularly endogamous, like Quebecois, and descend from a relatively small number of settlers whose descendants constantly remarried? So maybe MyHeritage, knows this and is filtering these matches out in a similar way to Ancestry's Timber algorithm? But GEDMATCH does not do this?

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    Just to add, that these unexpected matches on GEDMATCH, with signs of Volga German links, also appear from FamilyTreeDNA/FTDNA, which is maybe not surprising as I think MyHeritage and FTDNA used the same chip?

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    I realized I did not state what kind of size matches I am seeing - the highest 'unexpected' MyHeritage match on GEDMATCH I get is 40cM, a Russian, then there is a steady stream of unexpected matches below this with clearly Russian names or Volga German GED trees. None of these appear with the same upload on MyHeritage.

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    I basically have the same kind of problem with all Kits I'm using on all platforms. There is only a limited amount of overlap in all these cases and to decide which match is real, which platform is better in selecting right from wrong is a big issue.
    So far I couldn’t identify any rule or principle other than Ancestry giving good matches most of the time but also missing a lot. With the others its just gambling, especially with My Heritage.
    Last edited by Riverman; 04-12-2021 at 07:46 PM.

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    I deleted my account on Gedmatch and am talking by memory here but if one did one-to-one comparison one could see how many snps are used in the comparison on the particular cousin (what the overlap is). MH may have used different chips through the years and the genetic distance may look reasonably good at first ...but be in fact rather "weak".
    As for the Volga Germans - the Wiki articles state that they were initially around 27-30K people (mostly Lutheran) ,mostly from Hesse and the Palatinate and Württemberg. Around 1914 the number of Volga Germans will be over 600K(I do not know about if there were any consequent waves of settlers and the articles leave the impression that they're all descendants of the original XVIII c. settlers). Interdenominational marriages (remaining in the group) would have been very rare exceptions up to the Revolution I'd guess... Attempting to convert an Orthodox to Protestantism or Catholicism was forbidden by law. They were allowed to proselytize among non-Orthodox populations though.

    https://sites.ualberta.ca/~german/Al...lgagermans.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I basically have the same kind of problem with all Kits I'm using on all platforms. There is only a limited amount of overlap in all these cases and to decide which match is real, which platform is better in selecting right from wrong is a big issue.
    So far I couldn’t identify any rule or principle other than Ancestry giving good matches most of the time but also missing a lot. With the others its just gambling, especially with My Heritage.
    Yes it seems the 23andme v5 chip is very dissimilar to the chip which MyHeritage/FTDNA use, I don't know if that could be the cause of these unexpected matches

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPtsX_IMF5k Family History Fanatics video on GEDMATCH overlap
    https://youtu.be/wPtsX_IMF5k?t=561 table that shows the % in relation to the SNPs that GEDMATCH looks at

    The weird thing is though, that both FTDNA/MyHeritage show very high overlap on GEDMATCH with this 23andme v5 kit, about 240,000, whereas the overlap to Ancestry accounts is only about 45,000-50,000. That doesn't seem to tie in with what is suggested in that FamilyHistoryFanatics video at all. Something is not right somewhere!

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    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post
    I deleted my account on Gedmatch and am talking by memory here but if one did one-to-one comparison one could see how many snps are used in the comparison on the particular cousin (what the overlap is). MH may have used different chips through the years and the genetic distance may look reasonably good at first ...but be in fact rather "weak".
    The overlap is now shown on the GEDMATCH One to many Beta matching page - as I said above, that is the odd thing about this 23andme v5 upload vs these MyHeritage/FTDNA kits, it shows very high overlap, about 240,000 which is not what I have seen mentioned elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post
    As for the Volga Germans - the Wiki articles state that they were initially around 27-30K people (mostly Lutheran) ,mostly from Hesse and the Palatinate and Württemberg. Around 1914 the number of Volga Germans will be over 600K(I do not know about if there were any consequent waves of settlers and the articles leave the impression that they're all descendants of the original XVIII c. settlers). Interdenominational marriages (remaining in the group) would have been very rare exceptions up to the Revolution I'd guess... Attempting to convert an Orthodox to Protestantism or Catholicism was forbidden by law. They were allowed to proselytize among non-Orthodox populations though.

    https://sites.ualberta.ca/~german/Al...lgagermans.htm
    Thanks, I have previously found this site which is very comprehensive. It states there were also many Catholic Volga Germans, 30% of the original settlers being Catholic, and also reformed or Calvinist, by 1910, there were 70,000 in the Volga region but that they formed, in general, separate colonies. Interesting your comment about converting from Orthodox being forbidden, I did not know that. But I guess the other way round was permitted, and quite a few Volga German girls married Russian Orthodox men and converted.

    https://www.volgagermans.org/
    https://www.volgagermans.org/culture/religion

    After Russia removed the protection from compulsory military service for Volga Germans in 1874, many started to emigrate, and many of the Catholics went to Brazil and Argentina

    https://www.volgagermans.org/who-are...ry/immigration

    So that would explain the Brazilian/Argentinian matches I see, but...are they real matches?
    Last edited by Rufus191; 04-12-2021 at 09:13 PM.

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    I did some tests with different uploads and My Heritage basically produces most of the time a quite similar to the same result if its really the same upload, especially if its the same upload or test of both parties. So not just of yourself, but your match also. Like I got vastly different results with 23andme vs. FTDNA, but the same (not down to the exact SNP though) with an Ancestry : Ancestry (new version) comparison.

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    Some more stats:
    https://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_SNP_comparison_chart

    http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/blog/?p=2700

    Family Tree DNA and MyHeritage DNA provide identical autosomal SNPs. They share about 44% with AncestryDNA. 23andMe and Living DNA who both use the v5 chip share over 90% with each other, but only about 14% with the other companies. Only 110,231 autosomal SNPs were included in my raw data by all five companies.

    Those low overlap percentages are what makes it difficult to find matching segments between data from the v5 chip and data from the old chip. Some companies like Family Tree DNA do not yet accept transfers of raw data from 23andMe or Living DNA because of that. MyHeritage DNA uses imputation to estimate the missing SNPs. GEDmatch is still working to develop a more reliable method to compare v5 chip data with earlier data through it’s GEDmatch Genesis project.
    Interesting your comment about converting from Orthodox being forbidden, I did not know that. But I guess the other way round was permitted, and quite a few Volga German girls married Russian Orthodox men and converted.
    Most probably.

    Here is some more about the past and present situation:

    https://ru.mdz-moskau.eu/%D0%BD%D0%B...8%D1%82%D1%8B/

     
    Until the end of the 20th century, Orthodoxy had almost no followers among Russian Germans. In most cases, it was embraced to advance through the ranks or as a result of marrying Russians.

    The most common among Russian Germans were Protestantism and Catholicism. In the 18th century, about 2/3 of the German colonists were Lutherans or Reformed Protestant by religion, the rest were Catholics. The confessional composition in the 19th century changed insignificantly. Thus, in the first half of the century, the Mennonite and Herngut missionaries enjoyed success among the Germans. And in the second half of the 19th century, Protestant denominations spread widely in the German colonies - Baptism, Stundism, Betbruder, Seventh-day Adventists , Mennonites . However, their total number was just over 1% of the total number of all Russian Germans.

    According to the materials of the first All-Russian census of 1897, 76% of the Germans in Russia were Lutherans, 14% were Catholics, and 4% were Mennonites and Reformed. Orthodox Germans were less than 1%.

    The anti-religious campaigns of the Soviet government led to the cessation of the official activity of all religious denominations in the USSR by the end of the 1930s.

    Since the early 1990s, traditional religious confessions have begun to revive in Russia. However, it was at this time that the mass adoption of Orthodoxy by Russian Germans began. This became a part of the assimilation process and a consequence of mixed marriages. The departure of the Germans from the traditional German confessions was influenced by the interruption of religious tradition and the connection between generations, as well as the public activity of the Orthodox Church, its construction of temples. Psychologically inclined to convert to religious belief, Russian Germans-in the absence of Lutheran and Catholic communities-increasingly became followers of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    Russian Germans that have emigrated to Germany by religious denomination (y.2018):

    https://ru.mdz-moskau.eu/wp-content/...08-768x693.jpg




    On the Latin American matches - yes, they might be as real as the Volga Russian (and their descendants of course). I too have some Latin American matches with ancestry from Central Europe (Slavs) or the Balkans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post
    On the Latin American matches - yes, they might be as real as the Volga Russian (and their descendants of course). I too have some Latin American matches with ancestry from Central Europe (Slavs) or the Balkans.
    If the Russian German matches are real, you likely get Western German matches and some from the USA, but also Canada, Denmark, Hungary and Poland too. Because the same settlers came from Western Germany and moved to all these places. That's why some Western Germans without such ancestry even get Russian German or Colonial American groups sometimes, because individually they can be still very close to those relatives which emigrated, so they end up in the same cluster. All this happened in the genealogy relevant time frame, its not that long ago.

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