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Thread: New Samples from Migration Era and Early Medieval Moravia

  1. #2691
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    Vettor, I don't know what you mean by advising us to ignore Jordanes as supposedly most modern scholars ignore him? If we ignore Jordanes, the entire history of the Goths will practically disappear. I don't think any modern scholar has renounced the history of the Goths. Or maybe we are to accept the history of the Goths given by Jordanes, and ignore only the history of the Slavs? Why should we apply such double standards? Is it just because it is convenient for the proponents of the Pripyat theory?

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  3. #2692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.B View Post
    I wonder if we could recreate the same L1029 heat map, minus the YP263 and YP417 clades?
    All these M458 variants are actually the same. Sometimes when the whole families are tested in one area that area becomes red on the map.
    So, these maps are only for orientation.

     
    All simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps and calculations I ask for a donation via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account

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  5. #2693
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    For some further perspective, here is Waldemar's map of L1029 samples.
    There's at least a dozen of Medieval Polish sites with R-M458 (incl. R-L1029) aDNA samples (unpublished)

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  7. #2694
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    Waldemar

    Curta wrote about Ostrów that the 4th century fibula was found loosely, outside the objects (there are cavities and ceramics of the Zarubiniec culture on the site), and the pots treated as Praga's do not fit into the previous classification schemes. Therefore, there is no basis for treating this position as the Prague one.

    South Belarus and northwestern Ukraine is an area of the so-called Korczak culture. It is often considered a Prague culture group, but on the other hand, it has features in common with the Pienkow culture (baggy vessels, settlement, construction, etc.).

    From Poland, some pits from Złota, Maćkówka (formerly included in the Przeworsk culture) and a cottage from Pszczew were found in "phase 0". Gawrituchin relied on the criterion of forming (cutting) the edges of the edges of the pots, based on the drawings in Parczewski's book (1988).

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  9. #2695
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    South Slavic Y3120 clades (PH908 and Z17855):

     
    All simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps and calculations I ask for a donation via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account

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  11. #2696
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambron View Post
    Waldemar

    Curta wrote about Ostrów that the 4th century fibula was found loosely, outside the objects (there are cavities and ceramics of the Zarubiniec culture on the site), and the pots treated as Praga's do not fit into the previous classification schemes. Therefore, there is no basis for treating this position as the Prague one.

    South Belarus and northwestern Ukraine is an area of the so-called Korczak culture. It is often considered a Prague culture group, but on the other hand, it has features in common with the Pienkow culture (baggy vessels, settlement, construction, etc.).

    From Poland, some pits from Złota, Maćkówka (formerly included in the Przeworsk culture) and a cottage from Pszczew were found in "phase 0". Gawrituchin relied on the criterion of forming (cutting) the edges of the edges of the pots, based on the drawings in Parczewski's book (1988).
    According to Florin Curta, there's no reliable evidence for any Prague type culture artefacts from Ukraine/Belarus pre-dating those found in the west. Interesting



    Hundreds of thousands of the Slavs known from the 6th c. written sources appeared out of thin air
    Last edited by Waldemar; 07-22-2021 at 09:31 AM.

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  13. #2697
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    Waldemar, most likely it was like Sedov says:

    "The Slavs in the beginning of the Middle ages settled in the extended territories of Central and Eastern Europe from the Elbe in the west up to the Don in the east and from the coast of the Baltic sea in the north up to Peloponnessos in the south and were differentiated in several dialect-tribal formations.
    One of those large formations was Prague-Korchak culture formed on the basis of late Pszeworsk antiquities (Southern Poland, Western Ukraine and north-eastern Slovakia)."

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  15. #2698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waldemar View Post
    According to Florin Curta, there's no reliable evidence for any Prague type culture artefacts from Ukraine/Belarus pre-dating those found in the west. Interesting

    Hundreds of thousands of the Slavs known from the 6th c. written sources appeared out of thin air
    I like Curta when he is assessing particular fact, like dating, care with artefacts, fieldwork discipline, etc. Than I know, that I have insight from all angles, even very "exotic" ones. And of course, I rarely agree with him

  16. #2699
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    Is it so difficult to provide radiocarbon dating from the PTC large sites similar to Roztoky, but from the late 5th - early 6th c. AD and located in Belarus/Ukraine? Or maybe there's none
    Last edited by Waldemar; 07-22-2021 at 11:08 AM.

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  18. #2700
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    Why would the Venedi being just East of the Vistula(or the Bug river) contradict the Pripyat theory?

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