Page 15 of 274 FirstFirst ... 513141516172565115 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 2735

Thread: New Samples from Migration Era and Early Medieval Moravia

  1. #141
    Registered Users
    Posts
    65
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Swede
    Nationality
    Swedish
    Y-DNA (P)
    I1
    mtDNA (M)
    H3

    Sweden Kalmar Union
    Vahaduo Global 25 North Europe.png

    Some of these samples from Kowalewko seem to plot quite close to Iron Age Scanian sample RISE174. It's a shame that we don't have any proper Migration Period samples from Götaland or Gotland yet.

  2. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Strider99 For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  Johnny ola (04-19-2021),  Korabi (04-19-2021),  leonardo (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  Principe (04-20-2021),  Ryukendo (04-19-2021),  VladimirTaraskin (04-19-2021),  Waldemar (04-19-2021)

  3. #142
    Registered Users
    Posts
    169
    Sex
    Location
    Eastern Norway
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z19
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a

    Norway
    Yeah, it's hard to tell with the low resolution of these samples, but it definitely looks like these Kowalewko Goths descended from migrants from mainland Sweden (or Gotland), rather than somewhere like Jutland. Some distance in time, but they look like they could have been closely related to the raiders from the Salme ship-burials (who were said to have come from Eastern Sweden):

  4. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Bygdedweller For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  CopperAxe (04-19-2021),  leonardo (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  parastais (04-19-2021),  Ryukendo (04-19-2021),  Strider99 (04-19-2021),  Tomenable (04-19-2021),  VladimirTaraskin (04-19-2021),  Waldemar (04-19-2021)

  5. #143
    Moderator
    Posts
    2,576
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Indo-Iranian/Balto-Slavic
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93

    Quote Originally Posted by Bygdedweller View Post
    Yeah, it's hard to tell with the low resolution of these samples, but it definitely looks like these Kowalewko Goths descended from migrants from mainland Sweden (or Gotland), rather than somewhere like Jutland. Some distance in time, but they look like they could have been closely related to the raiders from the Salme ship-burials (who were said to have come from Eastern Sweden):
    Were not some medieval Bavarian and German samples clustering with Scandinavians too? Surely they don't look like mainland Germans today but around this time many Germanics in modern-day Germany were much more northern shifted.

  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  Brent.B (04-21-2021),  Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  Megalophias (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  parastais (04-19-2021),  Riverman (04-19-2021),  Ryukendo (04-19-2021)

  7. #144
    Registered Users
    Posts
    169
    Sex
    Location
    Eastern Norway
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z19
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a

    Norway
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Were not some medieval Bavarian and German samples clustering with Scandinavians too? Surely they don't look like mainland Germans today but around this time many Germanics in modern-day Germany were much more northern shifted.
    True, that's still something we need to consider, but just going from a very crude analysis I think these look distinctly Northeast-shifted as compared to those samples.
    Last edited by Bygdedweller; 04-19-2021 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Added plot

  8. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Bygdedweller For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  Brent.B (04-21-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  CopperAxe (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  Ryukendo (04-19-2021),  Tomenable (04-19-2021),  Waldemar (04-19-2021)

  9. #145
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,053
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Were not some medieval Bavarian and German samples clustering with Scandinavians too? Surely they don't look like mainland Germans today but around this time many Germanics in modern-day Germany were much more northern shifted.
    Jastorf Germanics from North Western Germany will look the same indeed or being even more clearly Germanic. That's just core Germanic ancestry, which being somewhat diluted everywhere, in every modern population. Modern Swedes too have various influences of later date, like from Central Europe, the Baltics and Finland. But some Swedish subpopulations come very close to the Germanic core ancestry. Question is whether the samples analysed really share Sweden-specific drift and the early generations have isotopic profiles, which point to Scandinavia. I would guess so, because I indeed think they came from Sweden too. However, a general similarity to modern Swedes might not be the final proof for that, unless its really fine grained and we have more early Germanic samples from Northern Germany-Denmark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bygdedweller View Post
    True, that's still something we need to consider, but just going from a very crude analysis I think these look distinctly Northeast-shifted as compared to those samples.
    Do we really know when the Baltic and Uralic slight shift started in some Swedish subpopulations? It was present in some samples from the Viking study, but how much do we have from early Germanics? Could it be picked up locally in Poland too? I don't know, I just think these are the questions which need to be answered to be sure.
    Last edited by Riverman; 04-19-2021 at 09:37 AM.

  10. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  CopperAxe (04-19-2021),  leonardo (04-19-2021),  parastais (04-19-2021),  Ryukendo (04-19-2021),  Strider99 (04-19-2021)

  11. #146
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,262
    Sex
    Location
    Zagreb
    Ethnicity
    Kaikavian Croatian
    Nationality
    Croatian
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2a1a2b-A815
    mtDNA (M)
    HV0-T195C!

    Croatia European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Proably all except Migration:1 are Libiva, but nobody here knows for sure.
    Obviously, Migration:1 is POH44.
    Others, from Migration:2 to Migration:12 are Kowalewko samples.
     
    All simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps and calculations I ask for a donation via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ph2ter For This Useful Post:

     Brent.B (04-21-2021),  parastais (04-19-2021)

  13. #147
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,053
    Sex

    If Arza on Eurogenes is right, the absolute dominance of G2 in Kowalewko is quite astonishing:
    M:2 Kow_22 PCA0027 ~ 80-110/120 AD M CTS35 G2a2b2a1a1b1a1a2 https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z726/
    M:3 Kow_24 PCA0029 ~ 10-375 AD unknown I1 or female
    M:4 Kow_25 PCA0030 ~ 110/120-160 AD F
    M:5 Kow_26 PCA0031 ~ 10-375 AD F
    M:6 Kow_29 PCA0034 ~ 80-260 AD F
    M:7 Kow_31 PCA0036 ~ 80-260 AD M FGC8303 G2a2b2a1a1b1a1a2a1b1 https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Y3101/
    M:8 Kow_35 PCA0040 ~ 80-260 AD M CTS12891 G2a2b2a1, conflicting downstream mutations https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-CTS796/
    M:9 Kow_41 PCA0046 ~ 110/120-160 AD M S12223 I1a3a1a2a1a~ https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S11991/
    M:10 Kow_48 PCA0053 ~ 80-260 AD F
    M:11 Kow_54 PCA0059 ~ 110/120-160 AD F
    M:12 Kow_57 PCA0062 ~ 80-260 AD M PF3331 G2a2b2a1 https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-CTS796/
    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?po...up=true&page=2

    That's probably the highest frequency of G2 in that region since Neolithic times found so far afaik. Could they be closely related?
    Last edited by Riverman; 04-19-2021 at 11:58 AM.

  14. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  Brent.B (04-21-2021),  CisSasGot (04-21-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  etrusco (04-19-2021),  Lupriac (04-19-2021),  Megalophias (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  parastais (04-19-2021),  peloponnesian (04-20-2021),  ph2ter (04-19-2021),  Ryukendo (06-02-2021),  Waldemar (04-19-2021)

  15. #148
    Registered Users
    Posts
    65
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Swede
    Nationality
    Swedish
    Y-DNA (P)
    I1
    mtDNA (M)
    H3

    Sweden Kalmar Union
    Are those 4 G2a samples the same as the ones in Zenczak 2017? https://www.academia.edu/33791135/20..._DNA_libraries

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Strider99 For This Useful Post:

     Megalophias (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  Waldemar (04-19-2021)

  17. #149
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,052
    Sex
    Location
    Netherlands
    Ethnicity
    South-Dutch
    Nationality
    Dutch
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2a2a1b2-CTS1977
    mtDNA (M)
    H13a1a1

    Netherlands Belgium
    Eurogenes appears unimpressed by the quality of the new samples from the Migration period.
    I suppose he is right, but maybe the samples can be still be useful in a comparative way.
    I have prepared an UMAP plot of the POH and Kowalewko samples among the submodern European samples.
    new Miration samples.png
    The Kowalewko samples are plotted somewhat differently from the plots of ph2ter.
    But note that I used UMAP and ph2ter probably not. ph2ter used scaled data and I used unscaled.
    And finally: I used only submodern data, while ph2ter probably compared with modern data, which capture the Slavic admixture, which was mainly absent in the submodern samples.

    In the upper-left of the UMAP plot we find a huge triangle of VW-European samples.
    The upper rim of this triangle is the region were the (Western) Viking samples plot.
    Most of the K samples are also in this region of the later Vikings.

    On the upper right we find a much smaller Balto-Slavic cluster.
    This were most of the P samples are located.
    One P sample is halfway the Balto-Slavic cluster and the WestMed samples.
    It has many nearest neighbors in the Roman Antiquity samples, so a hybrid admixture seems plausible.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Huijbregts For This Useful Post:

     leonardo (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021)

  19. #150
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,207
    Ethnicity
    Venetharum natio populosa
    Nationality
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L1029>YP263>Y2912*
    mtDNA (M)
    H141,U5a1b1j(W)

    Poland Poland Pomerania
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    If Arza on Eurogenes is right, the absolute dominance of G2 in Kowalewko is quite astonishing:


    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?po...up=true&page=2

    That's probably the highest frequency of G2 in that region since Neolithic times found so far afaik. Could they be closely related?


    https://www.academia.edu/33791135/20...?auto=download

  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Waldemar For This Useful Post:

     Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  leonardo (04-19-2021),  Megalophias (04-19-2021),  parastais (04-19-2021),  Riverman (04-19-2021),  Strider99 (04-19-2021),  VladimirTaraskin (04-19-2021)

Page 15 of 274 FirstFirst ... 513141516172565115 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Medieval Pashtun Samples
    By J Man in forum Central
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-28-2020, 05:37 AM
  2. G25 Distance Maps to selected Early Medieval Samples
    By ph2ter in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 05-09-2020, 02:33 PM
  3. Early Medieval Czech DNA (years 600-900 AD)
    By Tomenable in forum Central
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 04-19-2018, 01:07 PM
  4. Early Medieval Germanic barrow burials
    By JonikW in forum History (Medieval)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-31-2018, 12:34 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-27-2016, 06:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •