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Thread: New Samples from Migration Era and Early Medieval Moravia

  1. #1871
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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Lusatian got replaced by Face Urns (Pomeranian) culture. I have not read much on it since Gimbutas “Balts” and today wiki.
    Wiki said 700-300 BCE and started from North Poland.
    Gimbutas, of course, said those were (part of Western) Balts. They would spread and flourish on amber trade, but got wiped out by Sarmatians. Later cultures in the region would already be (East) Germanic.

    Could be a fun bet what Ydna lines those guys had and what autosomal profile. Likely they had some of that Balto-Slavic drift.

    Those 700-300 BCE completely correspond to Scythian age. So, Face Urns might be important part of Scythian world and thus got annihilated by Sarmatians.
    Face urns culture also played a significant role in the formation of both the Zarubinetz and Przeworsk culture.

    Edit: as a side note, IIRC the Lusatian culture also coexisted with the Pomeranian/face urns culture for a few hundred years.
    Last edited by Brent.B; 06-23-2021 at 04:05 PM.

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  3. #1872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Like I wrote before, the Sardinians are, in comparison to other people "oversampled". Of the typically continental European subclades most have been found in Cagliari, which seems to have been particularly well connected to mainland Europe. Its highly interesting how diverse Cagliari is, but how much of this diversity dates well into later historical periods have to be seen. In any case I wouldn't wonder if they picked some locals of non-Baltoslavic and Slavic background up on the move, surely. Even more so a lot of the Germanic tribes seem to have picked up Iranian, primarily Sarmatian in the wider sense, elements up on the way, which were in some cases their reconnaissance or even elite cavalry units, with whole clans and tribes moving with the Germanics. So sure, Iranian and Baltoslavic subclades could have been picked up and brought to the Mediterranean sphere. But this needs to be investigated in detail, especially since most we got so far in this direction is from Cagliari, in which you can find almost everything from continental Europe.
    I thought the Sardinian subclades are extinct? If so, wouldn't that preclude a later "migration" there?

  4. #1873
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    I thought the Sardinian subclades are extinct? If so, wouldn't that preclude a later "migration" there?
    Well, you wrote e.g. about R-L1029:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1703/

    For R-Z280:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y13891*/

    Look especially how widespread this subclade is, not just in typically Slavic areas:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP372/

    The Sardinian sample is probably distinct or basal, but I don't know how much of this can be attributed to the samples resolution, because a lot of the Sardinian samples are rather basal. So either they came earlier and independently, in the Iron Age and early historical period, or its caused by other factors including resolution? Because if that's all correct, it looks like a fairly early spread to the island for many associated haplotypes from Central Europe.
    Last edited by Riverman; 06-23-2021 at 04:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Lusatian got replaced by Face Urns (Pomeranian) culture. I have not read much on it since Gimbutas “Balts” and today wiki.
    Wiki said 700-300 BCE and started from North Poland.
    Gimbutas, of course, said those were (part of Western) Balts. They would spread and flourish on amber trade, but got wiped out by Sarmatians. Later cultures in the region would already be (East) Germanic.

    Could be a fun bet what Ydna lines those guys had and what autosomal profile. Likely they had some of that Balto-Slavic drift.

    Those 700-300 BCE completely correspond to Scythian age. So, Face Urns might be important part of Scythian world and thus got annihilated by Sarmatians.
    Gimbutus separated the baltic race/people into 2 different groups.......West-Baltic people and East-Baltic people

    The west-Baltic lived between coastal Poland ( Vistula river delta area ) and Kalingrad ( prussia ) ......the main tribe was the Aestii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesti ........who where incorporated into Goth society and went with them to the Black sea Ukraine area ...............The Aesti where the main distributors of the Amber trade system ...................interesting book called "Northern Gold" talks about it

    The East-Balts are current Latvian and Estonian people ............they are different from the West-Balts


    The last West-Balts died out in the 13th century
    Old Prussians, Baltic Prussians or simply Prussians (Old Prussian: prūsai; German: Pruzzen or Prußen; Latin: Pruteni; Latvian: prūši; Lithuanian: prūsai; Polish: Prusowie; Kashubian: Prësowié) were an indigenous tribe among the Baltic peoples that inhabited the region of Prussia, at the south-eastern shore of the Baltic Sea between the Vistula Lagoon to the west and the Curonian Lagoon to the east. The Old Prussians, who spoke an Indo-European language now known as Old Prussian and worshipped pagan deities,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Pr...th_century.jpg
    Last edited by vettor; 06-23-2021 at 04:47 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

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  8. #1875
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    Has any lab been confirmed to have acquired genomes from Lusatians?

  9. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider99 View Post
    Has any lab been confirmed to have acquired genomes from Lusatians?
    Halberstadt (I0099) LBA?

    Although this one is autosomal typical NW Germanic (range North Dutch-Jutland).
    Last edited by Finn; 06-23-2021 at 07:19 PM.

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  11. #1877
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    Fin, but in the paternal line he is a Balto-Slavic ancestor - Z280.

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  13. #1878
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    Vettor, the West Balts did not die out. They are still alive and feel very well as North-East Poles.

  14. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambron View Post
    Fin, but in the paternal line he is a Balto-Slavic ancestor - Z280.
    Could be, autosomal he is close to Danish BA, DEU MA and modern North Dutch.


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  16. #1880
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    Polish
    Halberstadt_LBA:I0099 44.6%
    Latvian 33.6%
    Hungary_BA:I1504 21.8%
    Distance 0.1451%

    Czech
    Halberstadt_LBA:I0099 69.8
    Hungary_BA:I1504 30.2
    distance % = 0.1343

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