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Thread: New Samples from Migration Era and Early Medieval Moravia

  1. #2701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granary View Post
    Why would the Venedi being just East of the Vistula contradict the Pripyat theory?
    Because these supposedly "Slavic" archaeological sites are located at least 400km east of the Vistula and not just east of the Vistula, near other large rivers very well known in the ancient times.

    Also, I'm not sure if you've seen this post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Waldemar View Post
    Forest regeneration and decrease in anthropogenic vegetation in Białowieża Forest is in the range cal AD 447-532 (68% probability, first phase) and cal AD 529-595 (68% probability, second phase). The area is largely depopulated in the 5th-6th c. AD. No traces of Early Medieval settlements have been documented so far within the boundaries of the Bialowieza National Park where Latalowa's sites are situated.
    Probably the same situation was more to the east, in the Pripyat Marshes.
    Last edited by Waldemar; 07-22-2021 at 11:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mha View Post
    I like Curta when he is assessing particular fact, like dating, care with artefacts, fieldwork discipline, etc. Than I know, that I have insight from all angles, even very "exotic" ones. And of course, I rarely agree with him
    I am not archaelogist, but Curta seems to me biased from time to time. When something does not fit in his theories then he asks for extraordinary proofs.
    Last edited by ph2ter; 07-22-2021 at 10:58 AM.
     
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    Heatmaps with merged Slavic clades:


     
    All simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps and calculations I ask for a donation via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account

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  7. #2704
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Heatmaps with merged Slavic clades:
     
    "The centre of Old Slavic names is situated on the northern slope of the Carpathian Mountains, approximately between Bukovina and Krakow."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.B View Post
    And the TMRCA calculations line up with it to. Stands at 1400 years ago per Yfull (600AD).

    Of course, as more samples arrive we’ll be able to say that with more certainty… currently there are not many. In the event TMRCA ends up getting pushed further back, and if the aDNA shows L1029 west of the Vistula/along the Baltic coast prior to the Slavic migrations, then it could be possible earlier migrations brought it there.

    But yeah Danelaw seems most likely at the moment IMO.
    Dane Law sure. Saxons aren't out if the question either. Could have literally been one migrant that became part of the migration. 1400ybp is much further back than Danes. If it's 10-15% underestimated, that becomes a tmrca of 1540-1610, or 5th century. Sure it could have and likely arrived a bit later. I wouldn't restrict it to Vikings until you see Scandinavians pop up in the branch tightening up the tmrca with English/British folk.

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    Yes, exactly. He can even become a little insulting. But it's not super harmful for building knowledge, I think he gives some pressure to all researchers dealing with Slavic topic to double check all facts. That is not problematic, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Heatmaps with merged Slavic clades:


    Just for comparison:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D...iddle_Ages.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambron View Post
    Meanwhile, Poles have the largest effective population size in Europe.
    ^^^ I made a thread about this study back in early 2018 - https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post786603

    Maybe it has something to do with the Black Death in the 13th century? It affected Poland less than the rest of Europe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    ^^^ I made a thread about this study back in early 2018 - https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post786603

    Maybe it has something to do with the Black Death in the 13th century? It affected Poland less than the rest of Europe.
    Rather I think Poles unite more different influences which they acquired over time. From Celtic-Lusatian-Germanic early on to later German, but at the fringes also Baltic, Scandinavian and Vlach among others.
    Definitely more different influences than for example in Belorussians. I know thats not the same, but it influences the estimates.

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  19. #2710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Rather I think Poles unite more different influences which they acquired over time. From Celtic-Lusatian-Germanic early on to later German, but at the fringes also Baltic, Scandinavian and Vlach among others.
    Definitely more different influences than for example in Belorussians. I know thats not the same, but it influences the estimates.
    But autosomally Poles are not that different from Belarussians, so how could this be? There are peoples far more mixed than them in Europe.

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