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Thread: New Samples from Migration Era and Early Medieval Moravia

  1. #431
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    Slavic and Germanic admix maps with migration samples (it is obvious that Slavic areas are undersampled, we only get crumbs around Slavic core area:




    Last edited by ph2ter; 05-04-2021 at 09:43 PM.
     
    All simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps and calculations I ask for a donation via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account

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  3. #432
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    There is a lot of the Baltic BA component in Kowalewko:

    https://slavicorigins.blogspot.com/2...k-culture.html

    He was rather of local origin, judging by earlier samples from a close neighborhood:

    Corded_Ware_POL:N47
    Corded_Ware_CZE 47.3%
    POL_Globular_Amphora 20.3%
    ___ Baltic_EST_BA 19.6%___
    POL_BKG_N_o1 12.8%
    POL_BKG_N 0%
    POL_BKG_N_o2 0%
    Corded_Ware_Baltic_early 0%
    dist 2.5287

    Corded_Ware_POL:N49
    Corded_Ware_CZE 51.6%
    ___ Baltic_EST_BA 21.5%___
    POL_BKG_N_o1 9%
    Corded_Ware_Baltic_early 5.7%
    POL_BKG_N_o2 4.7%
    POL_BKG_N 4.3%
    POL_Globular_Amphora 3.2%
    dist 1.9501

  4. #433
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    Interestingly even many Ukrainians show up East Germanic/Germanic admix. This is my mother for example. Added Uyelgi because she has Russian (distant Uralic) ancestry. Probably mainly via Poles and also via some German settlers in West Ukraine.

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.0876% / 0.01087574
    76.8 Slavic_R-L1029
    6.8 Poprad_Vandal
    5.4 Kowalewko_Goths_Male
    4.6 Slavic_I-Y3120
    3.6 Slavic_R-L1029_o
    2.8 Uyelgi

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.3612% / 0.01361223
    42.2 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    38.0 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    18.2 SVK_Poprad_MA
    1.6 Uyelgi1_scaled

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  6. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Interestingly even many Ukrainians show up East Germanic/Germanic admix. This is my mother for example. Added Uyelgi because she has Russian (distant Uralic) ancestry. Probably mainly via Poles and also via some German settlers in West Ukraine.

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.0876% / 0.01087574
    76.8 Slavic_R-L1029
    6.8 Poprad_Vandal
    5.4 Kowalewko_Goths_Male
    4.6 Slavic_I-Y3120
    3.6 Slavic_R-L1029_o
    2.8 Uyelgi

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.3612% / 0.01361223
    42.2 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    38.0 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    18.2 SVK_Poprad_MA
    1.6 Uyelgi1_scaled
    Might be from Varagians(Rus people).

  7. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Interestingly even many Ukrainians show up East Germanic/Germanic admix. This is my mother for example. Added Uyelgi because she has Russian (distant Uralic) ancestry. Probably mainly via Poles and also via some German settlers in West Ukraine.

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.0876% / 0.01087574
    76.8 Slavic_R-L1029
    6.8 Poprad_Vandal
    5.4 Kowalewko_Goths_Male
    4.6 Slavic_I-Y3120
    3.6 Slavic_R-L1029_o
    2.8 Uyelgi

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.3612% / 0.01361223
    42.2 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    38.0 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    18.2 SVK_Poprad_MA
    1.6 Uyelgi1_scaled
    Chernyakhov culture?

  8. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Chernyakhov culture?
    Actually, her father is Russian/East Ukrainian so her mother's side seems to be extremely Germanic shifted. She mentioned in the past (but was not sure about this) that she had german grand-grandmothers on her mother's side what I did not take seriously before DNA testing but either this or they were of Polish origin. Many Ukrainians show this kind of direct or indirect Germanic admix but many if not most don't show any of it so it seems to be of quite recent Polish/German origin in my opinion.

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  10. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Actually I think that the Nordic Bronze Age was the result of a massive shift from Unetice to the North West. So yes, in a way that might be true. Another question is whether the Unetice ancestry survived the onslaught through the later ages, up to the Iron Age, which I think is actually more doubtful in comparison.
    I guess so even to the outmost NW! The Central European Bronze Age cultures even into Iron Age has had it's effects, unto the creation of protection walls during the Iron Age! I guess the genetic effect is corresponding may be high in Bronze Age and lower in the Iron Age. Still much unclear. It's word a separate topic Riverman!

  11. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Actually, her father is Russian/East Ukrainian so her mother's side seems to be extremely Germanic shifted. She mentioned in the past (but was not sure about this) that she had german grand-grandmothers on her mother's side what I did not take seriously before DNA testing but either this or they were of Polish origin. Many Ukrainians show this kind of direct or indirect Germanic admix but many if not most don't show any of it so it seems to be of quite recent Polish/German origin in my opinion.
    I did investigate some segments I share with matches, since I have various source ancestries which are widely distributed and that is the only way to trace it back. There are a couple of segments which correspond with the settlement in the East and you can follow it from people with trees back to the 1700's in Western Germany, regions like Hessen, Rhineland, Baden-Wuerttemberg, to Denmark and Scandinavia on the one hand, Poland, Ukraine, Russia and the USA on the other. Those having trees going back far enough can be connected, but most matches in the Ukraine don't have a tree going back that far, but some do and they have same place and surnames from Western Germany.

    An interesting aspect is that in many regions which were more heavily German, there is not much more German influence left, because the Germans there migrated to Western countries. But in some formerly borderline and mixed regions, not known to be strongholds of German settlements in the past, there is as much or more influence left sometimes. Because in such areas more Germans were themselves assimilated or made mixed marriages instead of keeping close knit communities, which did emigrate almost en bloc later.

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  13. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Interestingly even many Ukrainians show up East Germanic/Germanic admix. This is my mother for example. Added Uyelgi because she has Russian (distant Uralic) ancestry. Probably mainly via Poles and also via some German settlers in West Ukraine.

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.0876% / 0.01087574
    76.8 Slavic_R-L1029
    6.8 Poprad_Vandal
    5.4 Kowalewko_Goths_Male
    4.6 Slavic_I-Y3120
    3.6 Slavic_R-L1029_o
    2.8 Uyelgi

    Target: Ukrainian
    Distance: 1.3612% / 0.01361223
    42.2 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    38.0 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    18.2 SVK_Poprad_MA
    1.6 Uyelgi1_scaled
    I do not think it is many. Ukrainian average scores 2% Goth, I do not think it is usual for them to score any West European admix, unless they have Polish ancestors

  14. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyrylBojarski View Post
    I do not think it is many. Ukrainian average scores 2% Goth, I do not think it is usual for them to score any West European admix, unless they have Polish ancestors
    Many samples from West Ukraine and even some from Sumy/Donetsk/Lugansk and quite eastern places score a lot of Germanic/Polish admix (East Ukraine had a lot of migration from West Ukraine recently). Also the Global25 Ukrainian samples which seem to be mostly from the Northwest actually show quite many samples (seemingly half of them) with Germanic/Polish admix too but yeah they are definetly not representative for all of (North) Ukraine. Like said before this seems to come from recent admix and has a very patchy distribution with many samples even in the northwest lacking any of it.


    Target: Ukrainian:UKR-1913
    Distance: 2.7338% / 0.02733788
    37.8 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    34.2 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    21.6 SVK_Poprad_MA
    3.2 BGR_IA
    3.2 Uyelgi1_scaled

    Target: Ukrainian:Ukrainian1
    Distance: 1.7486% / 0.01748639
    58.8 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    21.4 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    18.6 SVK_Poprad_MA
    1.2 BGR_IA

    Target: Ukrainian:UCH945_ukrainian_Tsherk
    Distance: 2.4906% / 0.02490622
    76.0 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    20.6 SVK_Poprad_MA
    3.4 Uyelgi1_scaled

    Target: Ukrainian:ULV293_ukrainian_Lviv
    Distance: 2.3806% / 0.02380635
    44.0 RUS_Sunghir_MA
    33.4 VK2020_UKR_Lutsk_MA
    16.4 SVK_Poprad_MA
    5.0 BGR_IA
    1.2 Uyelgi1_scaled

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