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  1. #1
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    R1b-L51 - Results discussion

    FTDNA Kit 67450, YSearch DZ7XA

    So I combined my SNP lists from BigY, Chromo2 and previous EA S series tests and plugged them into http://ytree.morleydna.com/ on the experimental tree, which popped out:

    R1b1a2a1 M412/L51/PF6536/S167
    R1b1a2a1~1 CTS6889, PF7589

    When using the ISOGG tree in the MorleyDNA predictor, it highlighted L128+, which is way down in R1b1a2a1a1c1a3 land.

    One of my earlier EthnoAncestry tests also found me S161+ which delayed my S136 result for quite a while. I just sent an email to BritainsDNA asking if S161 is either of these two new ones or if they could identify it so we can get it on the ISOGG tree.

    It's going to be a fun few months as all these results come in.

  2. #2
    Hi Paulie. When I checked the Big Y results, published on the "ht 35 FTDNA Project", of Nochev (N112116) and Ware (247119), both R-Z2110*, with a sample of R-L51 (Cornwell: 231206), for seeing which mutations belonged to these brother haplogroups (they derive both from R-L23*), I found many SNPs own of R-L51, even though all these should be checked for SNPs not tested, no_calls etc.
    CTS10085+, CTS11339+, CTS11726+, CTS11819+, CTS1738+, CTS2229+, CTS3075+,CTS3446+, CTS4380+, CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, L1099+, L128+, PF2624+, PF2750+, PF3498+, PF3561+, PF5511+, PF5863+, PF5880+, PF5884+, PF6248+, PF6418+, PF6452+, PF7589+, PR4090+.
    Are you sure that do only CTS6889 and PF7589 remain of all these?
    If so I could say that I checked also Chromo2 (I did it too) and published something also about R-L51 in "R1b phylogeny2 here. In the about 2000 samples published by BritainsDNA
    "There is 1 R-L51 (Z2113, Z2118)
    591: S1157, S1161, S1260, S3282, S8889".
    I don't know if that sample are you or not. Now we have also the location of those SNPs. Let me know:
    S1157=

    16591918 S1157 CTS5981 Z2115 S1157 SNP G A

    S1161=

    17173768 S1161 CTS6889 S1161 SNP T C

    S1260=

    14435899 S1260 S1260 SNP A T


    S3282=

    22256254 S3282 S3282 SNP G A

    S8889=

    4310132 S8889 S8889 SNP A G

    About S136 I know very well it, because I have a deletion of 9bp in that region. It is the same as L50, i.e. a mutation in 7,028, 023/6,952,023.
    Last edited by Rathna; 04-05-2014 at 09:37 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    Hi Paulie. When I checked the Big Y results, published on the "ht 35 FTDNA Project", of Nochev (N112116) and Ware (247119), both R-Z2110*, with a sample of R-L51 (Cornwell: 231206), for seeing which mutations belonged to these brother haplogroups (they derive both from R-L23*), I found many SNPs own of R-L51, even though all these should be checked for SNPs not tested, no_calls etc.
    CTS10085+, CTS11339+, CTS11726+, CTS11819+, CTS1738+, CTS2229+, CTS3075+,CTS3446+, CTS4380+, CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, L1099+, L128+, PF2624+, PF2750+, PF3498+, PF3561+, PF5511+, PF5863+, PF5880+, PF5884+, PF6248+, PF6418+, PF6452+, PF7589+, PR4090+.
    Are you sure that do only CTS6889 and PF7589 remain of all these?
    I used the Y-Merge complementary tool for Chrome BigY Addon and also included my 23andMe raw data, and merged. Here's my results (NoCall means not on the merge list)

    CTS10085-, NoCall, CTS11726-, CTS11819-, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, NoCall, L128+, NoCall, PF2750+, NoCall, NoCall, PF5511+, PF5863+, NoCall, PF5884+, PF6248+, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, PF7589+, PR4090-
    Last edited by Paulie; 04-05-2014 at 12:38 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie View Post
    I used the Y-Merge complementary tool for Chrome BigY Addon and also included my 23andMe raw data, and merged. Here's my results (NoCall means not on the merge list)

    CTS10085-, NoCall, CTS11726-, CTS11819-, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, NoCall, L128+, NoCall, PF2750+, NoCall, NoCall, PF5511+, PF5863+, NoCall, PF5884+, PF6248+, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, PF7589+, PR4090-

    Thus these SNPs are common between you and Cornwell:
    CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, L128+, PF2750+, PF5511+, PF5863+, PF5884+, PF6248+, PF7589+.
    By checking them on the semarglDNA spreadsheet:
    CTS5981/Z2115/S1157
    CTS6889/S1161
    CTS7153: not present, could be good. Not tested from Chromo2.
    CTS8355: present in many R1b haplogroups
    L128: not present. Tested from Chromo2, isn't in the sample published:

    14624254 L128 L128 PF3499 SNP T C

    PF2750: present in other haplogroups
    PF5511: present in other haplogroups
    PF5863: present in other haplogroups
    PF5884: present in other haplogroups
    PF6248: present in other haplogroups
    PF7589/Z2118: found in 252171, N66729, 231206, 87-5845, 22103,

  5. #5
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    All those others are H4=11. My merge list also included my Chromo2 list. I'll look up those positions you asked about later today.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie View Post
    All those others are H4=11.
    H4 isn't a very slow mutating marker and doesn't demonstrate anything. Anyway there are many R-L51 with H4 different from 11:

    E5620 R1b-L51 (xP310) =10
    86538 R1b-L51 (xP310) =9
    41519 R1b-L51 (xP310)=9
    E11319 R1b-L51 (xP310) =12
    67450 R1b-L51 (xP310) =9
    W63WR R1b-L51 (xP310) =12
    50168 R1b-L51 (xP310) =12
    143613 R1b-L51 (xP310) =12
    N100679 R1b-L51 (xP310) =10
    Last edited by Rathna; 04-05-2014 at 04:34 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    Let me know:
    S1157=

    16591918 S1157 CTS5981 Z2115 S1157 SNP G A

    S1161=

    17173768 S1161 CTS6889 S1161 SNP T C

    S1260=

    14435899 S1260 S1260 SNP A T


    S3282=

    22256254 S3282 S3282 SNP G A

    S8889=

    4310132 S8889 S8889 SNP A G

    About S136 I know very well it, because I have a deletion of 9bp in that region. It is the same as L50, i.e. a mutation in 7,028, 023/6,952,023.
    "chrY 16591918 . G A 1484.13 PASS . GT 1"

    "chrY 17173768 . T C 1484.13 PASS . GT 1"

    14435899 Don't Have in BigY VCF/BED or in 23andMe

    22256254 Don't Have in BigY VCF/BED or in 23andMe

    4310132 Don't Have in BigY VCF/BED or in 23andMe

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie View Post
    "chrY 16591918 . G A 1484.13 PASS . GT 1"

    "chrY 17173768 . T C 1484.13 PASS . GT 1"

    14435899 Don't Have in BigY VCF/BED or in 23andMe

    22256254 Don't Have in BigY VCF/BED or in 23andMe

    4310132 Don't Have in BigY VCF/BED or in 23andMe
    Of course, these last three are the SNPs tested by Chromo2, but if you did Chromo2 you are negative. This is probably an English R-L51. But what is meaningful for the L51 phylogeny is that the "Irish" ones are ancestral, and in my theory they are linked to Iberia and Iberia
    to Italy. Of course the answer will come when we test some Italian L51.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    Of course, these last three are the SNPs tested by Chromo2, but if you did Chromo2 you are negative. This is probably an English R-L51. But what is meaningful for the L51 phylogeny is that the "Irish" ones are ancestral, and in my theory they are linked to Iberia and Iberia
    to Italy. Of course the answer will come when we test some Italian L51.
    I double checked against my Chromo2 list, and I show S8889+, the other two are unlisted.

    Also checked the earlier merge list, and these were missing off it: CTS1738+, PF2624+.

    So to re-show the comparison again:

    CTS10085+, CTS11339+, CTS11726+, CTS11819+, CTS1738+, CTS2229+, CTS3075+,CTS3446+, CTS4380+, CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, L1099+, L128+, PF2624+, PF2750+, PF3498+, PF3561+, PF5511+, PF5863+, PF5880+, PF5884+, PF6248+, PF6418+, PF6452+, PF7589+, PR4090+.
    CTS10085-, NoCall, CTS11726-, CTS11819-, CTS1738+, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, CTS5981+, CTS6889+, CTS7153+, CTS8355+, NoCall, L128+, PF2624+, PF2750+, NoCall, NoCall, PF5511+, PF5863+, NoCall, PF5884+, PF6248+, NoCall, NoCall, NoCall, PF7589+, PR4090-

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Paulie;36276]I double checked against my Chromo2 list, and I show S8889+, the other two are unlisted.[QUOTE=Paulie;36276]

    But you should look at your raw data to see if you were tested for them or not.

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