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Thread: R1b-L51 - Results discussion

  1. #101
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    Waterville, ME
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U106 (S10415)
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    J1c2g (FMS)
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    I1a-P109 (23andMe)
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    T2b3 (23andMe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    We do know: see at #39 the samples posted by Cofgene. The thing to verify is why the others 4 samples (2 P312 and 2 U106) are negative, so it seems from the data, and if YSC0000082 is at the L51 level they shouldn't.
    We currently have the Big Y results for 161 individuals who are U106+. While 160 are YSC0000081+ (and likely the other one is a no-call) we have no-one who is YSC0000082+. Thus, it appears YSC0000082 may form a subclade which excludes U106 and likely P312.

  2. #102
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    In response to Brewerton having been given the wrong group, FTDNA are doing the following:

    'V221, P310, P311 and PF7589 were ordered on the lab side to validate.'

    Since he is already V-221 +, P-310- and P312- I'm not sure why those are being re run unless the sender has got mixed up with what has been previously ordered and newly ordered.
    Last edited by Brewerton1949; 06-09-2014 at 03:55 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewerton1949 View Post
    In response to Brewerton having been given the wrong group, FTDNA are doing the following:

    'V221, P310, P311 and PF7589 were ordered on the lab side to validate.'

    Since he is already V-221 +, P-310- and P312- I'm not sure why those are being re run unless the sender has got mixed up with what has been previously ordered and newly ordered.
    V221 is in haplogroup A. http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb2...hrY%3Adatabase Infact, there is a guy in the Y-Haplogroup A Project that is now R-V221. FTDNA's algorithm may be using R-V221 as a default label. R1b-PF7589 seems right for Brewerton.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

  4. #104
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    R-CTS9219
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    U4a

    The problem is in the FTDNA Haplotree. There is the absurd P310>PF6714, V221 branch in it. V221 is SNP which is specific for A1b (P108, V221) and its subclades. BT haplogroup is subclade of A1b. R1b is subclade of BT. This means that all R1b men are positive for V221. Most men on the planet are positive for V221 but it is not the terminal SNP for one of the R1b branches.

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  6. #105
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    I also thought that everyone descended from the A1b haplogroup would be V221+. However, I have just checked the SNPs showing on the page http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...x?section=ysnp
    There are 18 V221+ but also 20 v221- !
    I have not looked closely at the haplogroups yet, but I did notice that nearly all the V221- were toward the top of the web page, and the v221+ were twoards the bottom of the page, so preumably this correlates with sopmething to do with how the project members are grouped

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by msandford View Post
    I also thought that everyone descended from the A1b haplogroup would be V221+. However, I have just checked the SNPs showing on the page http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...x?section=ysnp
    There are 18 V221+ but also 20 v221- !
    I have not looked closely at the haplogroups yet, but I did notice that nearly all the V221- were toward the top of the web page, and the v221+ were twoards the bottom of the page, so preumably this correlates with sopmething to do with how the project members are grouped
    It's probably because of those inconsistant V221 results that the FTDNA algorithm put V221 in the R haplogroup. Sometimes, humans are needed to add common sense to a computer program. A little ground truthing would have been helpful.
    Last edited by Joe B; 06-09-2014 at 07:25 PM. Reason: fixed "the in" to "in the"
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    It's probably because of those inconsistant V221 results that the FTDNA algorithm put V221 the in R haplogroup. Sometimes, humans are needed to add common sense to a computer program. A little ground truthing would have been helpful.
    Yes.

    I have just looked at the R1B project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...x?section=ysnp
    33 V221- . 300 V221+
    It may well contain many of those who were in the ht35 project so perhaps the probelm is mainly a select bunch of HT35 and similar people maybe all in one branch who have mutated back from V221+ to V221-.
    Or may be it is faulty testing giving a false negative.

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  10. #108
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    Thanks to Big Y matching, I have just added results for 306154 Marsh to the L51xL11 SNP Tree ( www.geneticousins.com/L51xL11/SNPTree.pdf ). Marsh and Cornwell share one novel variant not shared by the others, so this creates a new node on the tree.

    Marsh is CTS6889+, but Z2117-, so I have removed Z2117 from the top block of L51xL11 for now.

    More to come.

    Edwin

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     Joe B (06-16-2014),  msandford (06-16-2014),  smal (06-16-2014)

  12. #109
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    I have added 286267 Unknown Surname from Kleinberghofen, Germany, 1722, to the block on the L51xL11 SNP Tree with Cornwell and Marsh. 286267 is also identified in FTDNA Big Y matching as "Axel", but this is not his surname. He is a member of the ht35 project, but is only listed on the SNP page.

    Two shared Novel Variants are listed in the block above Cornwell, Marsh, and 286267. One of these variants are shared by Cornwell and Marsh and the other is shared by Cornwell and 286267. This is something of a puzzle---maybe missed or unreliable variants.

    Edwin

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     Agamemnon (06-24-2014),  Joe B (06-17-2014)

  14. #110
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    L51xL11 SNP Tree Update

    FTDNA Kit 168028 Turzo has tested CTS6889+ and has been added to the L51xL11 SNP Tree ( www.geneticousins.com/L51xL11/SNPTree.pdf ). Turzo's family is from Szentpeterszeg in Eastern Hungary. It has been speculated that he may descend from "Romanian Saxons" or other Germans who settled at various times in Hungary and neighboring Romania. The name Romanian Saxon is misleading, as it is said that many of these Germans were from the southwest of Germany and spoke Franconian dialects.

    Turzo's STR markers indicate he is likely CTS11824+ and therefore most closely connects with Westbrooke and Schoenwalder on the SNP Tree.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to morrisondna For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-24-2014),  Pillar_of_fire (06-24-2014)

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