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Thread: Ivanhoe Cluster Question

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    Ivanhoe Cluster Question

    I have a question regarding what is referred to as the “Ivanhoe Cluster.” I had my cousin take the Y-111 test for me and I just upgraded it to the Big Y (results expected in July). I noticed that I matched others on terminal snaps FGC8579, R-BY147880 and Y22512 amongst some others. I also uploaded the results to NEVGEN which gave a 99.91% accuracy of S3251. I also seem to have quite a few matches on FTDNA that are from Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania and Poland. Actually, a surprising amount since my earliest known ancestor on that paternal line was a Puritan living in Massachusetts in the 1630’s.

    My question is, what is so significant about the Ivanhoe Cluster? It is a cluster that they are still studying? I saw a reference to an Ivanhoe Cluster group on FTDNA, but when I search for it, nothing comes up and I’m not sure if they are only interested in Jewish people that would be part of that cluster. I also saw a couple of articles online, but they are rather old. I’m not Jewish, but I joined a couple of Jewish groups on FTDNA and have some matches – rather far down the line, but I suspect that is normal and I should get more clarity when the Big Y results come in. I attached two pages of some matches on the Jewish FTDNA groups that I joined.
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    The Ivanhoe cluster is interesting precisely for the reason you had noted: Some folks in the cluster are from Eastern Europe and (apparently) Jewish. It was given the name of Ivanhoe as he married a Jew.

    Other than this curiosity, there is nothing really significant about the Ivanhoe cluster and I am not aware of anyone formally studying this cluster. One individual had been spending quite a bit of his personal time studying it (and creating some articles) but I do not know if he is still active in studying it.
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    Ivanhoe (called R-FGC8564 on YFull) is a large lineage among Ashkenazi Jews. However, given your line's genealogy, it is unlikely to be within R-FGC8564, more likely to be in another clade of R-S3249. Does your cousin have any Ashkenazi matches at the 37, 67, 111 marker levels, or only at 12 and/or 25? If your cousin continues to match the Ashkenazi Jews in Ivanhoe at 37 markers and above, it is quite likely your line is in the lineage as well. Please let us know either way!
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by leorcooper19 View Post
    Ivanhoe (called R-FGC8564 on YFull) is a large lineage among Ashkenazi Jews. However, given your line's genealogy, it is unlikely to be within R-FGC8564, more likely to be in another clade of R-S3249. Does your cousin have any Ashkenazi matches at the 37, 67, 111 marker levels, or only at 12 and/or 25? If your cousin continues to match the Ashkenazi Jews in Ivanhoe at 37 markers and above, it is quite likely your line is in the lineage as well. Please let us know either way!
    I match quite a few people on the 12 and 25 mark that are from Belarus, Russia, Poland, etc. On the 67 mark, I match someone who lists his earliest known ancester as a Tzvi Hirsh born about 1845 and is from Belarus. I also have a match on the 67 mark where I share a terminal snap of R-FGC8579 (I'm not sure if that is significant or not). I guess once my Y-700 results are back, I will know a lot more. The only other match (other than matches I know who share my surname and ancestor is someone with the last known ancestor of Jacob Dietrich from Germany (born 1570/died 1636) - I'm not sure if that is significant either.
    Last edited by Stolfi; 05-02-2021 at 12:05 AM.

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    I finally got my cousin's Big Y results and the haplogroup came back at A15177 (L47 to Z159 to S6924 to S3251 to FGC8563 to FGC8576 to FGC8590 to A15182 to A15177. I'm trying to figure this all out - lots to learn!

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