Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 149

Thread: Balkan Migration calculator by ph2ter 2021

  1. #111
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Location
    Skopje
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Nationality
    Macedonian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M67

    North Macedonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    LOL, I'm not sure whether you're serious or NOT, but the FORMER YUGOSLAV REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA(FYROM) was the name of the country until two years ago when it was changed to North Macedonia in order to make distinction to Greek Macedonia. However there was never such thing as 'Fyromanians' apart from the nationalistic circles and ignorant communities around the world. The people were called Macedonians back then and now. You can put the 'ethnic' remark at the beginning in order to make distinction with the Greek Macedonians yet again.

    As for us the ethnic Macedonians, we are culturally and religiously Orthodox Christians first and foremost, not sure what culturally Slavic even means? Of course we are linguistically Slavic and as it happens, we have Slavic ancestry, doesn't matter much or less. You can make a case with various other people, for example the Turks. They too don't have more than > 30% Turkic genetics although I might be wrong about the Turks so someone can correct me. And yet, they speak Turkic derived language. The Romanians, how much of original Roman, Latin ancestry they have? I might be wrong but I believe they have even less than we have Slavic and yet, the Romanians happen to speak a Latin derived language.

    I seriously hope you've been just uninformed on the matter and not trying to provoke a politically motivated fights...
    I think in fact "Slavic" in Macedonians are overrated too much and is forced like propaganda through the years,my friends and me 25-30% max on every calculator.Also many other Macedonians have it less as i saw.
    Some Macedonians on this Calculator.
    Last edited by Vasile; 05-08-2021 at 09:55 PM.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Vasile For This Useful Post:

     ph2ter (05-09-2021),  Tomenable (05-15-2021),  Vasilis (05-11-2021),  vettor (05-10-2021)

  3. #112
    Registered Users
    Posts
    559

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasile View Post
    I think in fact "Slavic" in Macedonians are overrated too much and is forced like propaganda through the years,my friends and me 25-30% max on every calculator.Also many other Macedonians have it less as i saw.
    Some Macedonians on this Calculator.
    I don't think there is some 'propaganda' or world conspiracy against us. The most logical explanation is that the results for Macedonians on these calculators come from the official averaged sample size in the G25 spreadsheet. There are five samples there and going by my own analysis, some of these samples are fairly mixed with other Yugoslav ethnicities and one sample being full blown Bosnian. All are from this study: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...e.0105090.s022

    There were some peculiarities with this study like a 'Macedonian' plotting and hidden under a bunch of Bosnians or a 'Croatian' plotting with Kosovars and southern Macedonians:


    So, pls take this results for the 'Macedonian' with reservation...
    Distance to: Aspar_scaled
    0.01995435 35.00% HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2 + 65.00% ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR65
    0.02156914 40.60% HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1 + 59.40% ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR65
    0.02223177 55.20% Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8215 + 44.80% UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine:MJ19
    0.02300447 61.80% BGR_IA:I5769 + 38.20% UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine:MJ19

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Aspar For This Useful Post:

     losAntonis (05-09-2021),  Michał (05-09-2021),  ph2ter (05-09-2021)

  5. #113
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Location
    Skopje
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Nationality
    Macedonian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M67

    North Macedonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    I don't think there is some 'propaganda' or world conspiracy against us. The most logical explanation is that the results for Macedonians on these calculators come from the official averaged sample size in the G25 spreadsheet. There are five samples there and going by my own analysis, some of these samples are fairly mixed with other Yugoslav ethnicities and one sample being full blown Bosnian. All are from this study: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...e.0105090.s022

    There were some peculiarities with this study like a 'Macedonian' plotting and hidden under a bunch of Bosnians or a 'Croatian' plotting with Kosovars and southern Macedonians:


    So, pls take this results for the 'Macedonian' with reservation...
    Yeah that's my point , full Macedonians are really bit slavic , Torlakian part (Northeast together with Skopje) is multicultural regions with many Bosnians Serbians Macedo-Serbians, all other part of Macedonia is pretty 25-30% Slavic, even on this calculator Skopje guy is less Slavic , but also we know there are many mixed Macedonians in Skopje also Kumanovo with Serbs.
    Northeast part is different story Still at that part, there are full Macedonians I'm one of them, but also many mixed ones.


    Btw Macedonian from West part,

    Target: West_scaled
    Distance: 1.9445% / 0.01944492
    41.4 __IllyricRoman
    28.3 __Slavic
    17.6 __LateRoman
    8.3 __Gallic
    4.4 __Alanic
    Last edited by Vasile; 05-09-2021 at 04:26 PM.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vasile For This Useful Post:

     Kanenas (05-10-2021),  Vasilis (05-11-2021)

  7. #114
    Registered Users
    Posts
    104
    Sex
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Ethnicity
    NW Bulgarian
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-Y151633>I-FT10714
    mtDNA (M)
    H4d

    Bulgaria North Macedonia Greek Macedonia European Union
    The most likely explanation for Macedonians having low Slavic is because by the time Slavs settled in Macedonia and mixed with the locals they were not pure Slavic but had mixed with the locals to the north and were already South Slavs. And yes the higher Slavic in the extreme north is due to mixing with the Torlaks but it seems to me like the mixing went both ways since there is a substantial amount of Z17855 in Montenegro/Kosovo area and people from Vranje area show some pull towards Macedonians.

  8. #115
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,055
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    The most likely explanation for Macedonians having low Slavic is because by the time Slavs settled in Macedonia and mixed with the locals they were not pure Slavic but had mixed with the locals to the north and were already South Slavs. And yes the higher Slavic in the extreme north is due to mixing with the Torlaks but it seems to me like the mixing went both ways since there is a substantial amount of Z17855 in Montenegro/Kosovo area and people from Vranje area show some pull towards Macedonians.
    What do you mean with the low Slavic?How do you estimate the Balto-Slavic drift among Bulgarians,Greeks,N.Macedonians,Albanians,Romanian s and Yugoslavs?Greek Macedonians for example have at least 35-40% Balto-Slavic drift and some of them even more.Bulgarians,Romanians,Yugoslavs have even more than 40% Balto-Slavic drift.N.Macedonians from gedmatch kits and also from the samples we have in G25 they plot between Greek_Macedonians and Bulgarians.Ofc they are not Slavic admixed in the way Belrusians,Poles,Ukrainians and Russians are... but you cannot claim that modern balkaners have low balto-slavic drift.
    Last edited by Johnny ola; 05-09-2021 at 05:32 PM.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Johnny ola For This Useful Post:

     Aspar (05-09-2021),  Nino90 (05-09-2021),  XXD (05-09-2021)

  10. #116
    Registered Users
    Posts
    104
    Sex
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Ethnicity
    NW Bulgarian
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-Y151633>I-FT10714
    mtDNA (M)
    H4d

    Bulgaria North Macedonia Greek Macedonia European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    What do you mean with the low Slavic?How do you estimate the Balto-Slavic drift among Bulgarians,Greeks,N.Macedonians,Albanians,Romanian s and Yugoslavs?Greek Macedonians for example have at least 35-40% Balto-Slavic drift and some of them even more.Bulgarians,Romanians,Yugoslavs have even more than 40% Balto-Slavic drift.N.Macedonians from gedmatch kits and also from the samples we have in G25 they plot between Greek_Macedonians and Bulgarians.Ofc they are not Slavic admixed in the way Belrusians,Poles,Ukrainians and Russians are... but you cannot claim that modern balkaners have low balto-slavic drift.
    The amount of Slavic is on a cline with Serbs having the most then Bulgarians then Vardar Macedonians and in last place Aegean Macedonians but it depends which ones cuz actually when you get to the most southern parts of macedonia the cline would be in an East to West direction with Albanians arround Korce having the least but it being present there since there were Slavic speakers in the past in the area and then when you get to the Rhodopes they are pretty much the same as Central Balkan Mountains for instance so if we are talking about people from arround Solun they could be closer to the Rhodopeans or to the Southwestern Macedonians its a mixed zone and there you could have people with say 40% Slavic but west of Solun/Thessaloniki and Kukush/Kilkis and in Thessaly its for sure less than 40% on average but of course you can say they are 50% South Slavic or something like that it depends on what populations you would use as your model. And low is very relative term i meant arround 30% and less which Vasile and Aspar were talking about.
    Last edited by vasil; 05-09-2021 at 08:07 PM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to vasil For This Useful Post:

     Vasile (05-09-2021)

  12. #117
    Registered Users
    Posts
    113
    Sex
    Location
    Skopje
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Nationality
    Macedonian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M67

    North Macedonia
    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    The amount of Slavic is on a cline with Serbs having the most then Bulgarians then Vardar Macedonians and in last place Aegean Macedonians but it depends which ones cuz actually when you get to the most southern parts of macedonia the cline would be in an East to West direction with Albanians arround Korce having the least but it being present there since there were Slavic speakers in the past in the area and then when you get to the Rhodopes they are pretty much the same as Central Balkan Mountains for instance so if we are talking about people from arround Solun they could be closer to the Rhodopeans or to the Southwestern Macedonians its a mixed zone and there you could have people with say 40% Slavic but west of Solun/Thessaloniki and Kukush/Kilkis and in Thessaly its for sure less than 40% on average but of course you can say they are 50% South Slavic or something like that it depends on what populations you would use as your model. And low is very relative term i meant arround 30% and less which Vasile and Aspar were talking about.
    You have really low Slavic also from full Macedonians from Northeast Macedonia(Torlakian), the thing is Macedonians if we not taking Northeast part have really low Slavic , especially Vardar part which is Central Macedonia and South parts are really low, from what I saw from other Forums plotting with Ghegs and Aromanians, I have good example for full Macedonian from Skopje :

    Code:
    Kit HW4801904
    
    Admix Results (sorted):
    
    #	Population	Percent
    1	North_Atlantic	23.4
    2	West_Med	22.46
    3	East_Med	21.79
    4	Baltic	17.66
    5	West_Asian	10.96
    6	Amerindian	1.39
    7	Siberian	1.28
    8	Red_Sea	0.61
    9	Oceanian	0.45
    
    Single Population Sharing:
    
    #	Population (source)	Distance
    1	Greek_Thessaly	6.37
    2	Bulgarian	7.57
    3	Romanian	8.64
    4	Tuscan	9.1
    5	North_Italian	10.5
    6	Italian_Abruzzo	11.12
    7	West_Sicilian	11.91
    8	Central_Greek	12.27
    9	Serbian	12.45
    10	East_Sicilian	13.59
    11	South_Italian	15.77
    12	Ashkenazi	16.02
    13	Portuguese	17.97
    14	Spanish_Extremadura	18.46
    15	Moldavian	18.52
    16	Spanish_Galicia	18.97
    17	Spanish_Andalucia	19.45
    18	Spanish_Murcia	19.52
    19	Spanish_Cataluna	19.57
    20	Spanish_Valencia	19.57
    
    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    
    #	 	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
    1	 	55.5%	Bulgarian	+	44.5%	Tuscan	@	3.36
    2	 	81.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	18.6%	Southwest_French	@	3.68
    3	 	82.8%	Bulgarian	+	17.2%	Sardinian	@	3.8
    4	 	79.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	20.6%	Spanish_Cataluna	@	4
    5	 	81.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	18.6%	Spanish_Cantabria	@	4
    6	 	60.2%	Bulgarian	+	39.8%	North_Italian	@	4.02
    7	 	87.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.4%	French_Basque	@	4.03
    8	 	82.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	17.4%	South_Dutch	@	4.04
    9	 	80.2%	Greek_Thessaly	+	19.8%	French	@	4.05
    10	 	86.3%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.7%	Southwest_English	@	4.05
    11	 	85.7%	Greek_Thessaly	+	14.3%	Southeast_English	@	4.07
    12	 	81.8%	Greek_Thessaly	+	18.2%	West_German	@	4.08
    13	 	51.6%	Romanian	+	48.4%	Tuscan	@	4.09
    14	 	86.5%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.5%	Orcadian	@	4.1
    15	 	79.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	20.1%	Spanish_Valencia	@	4.17
    16	 	59.6%	Romanian	+	40.4%	West_Sicilian	@	4.18
    17	 	87.1%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.9%	Irish	@	4.19
    18	 	87.2%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.8%	West_Scottish	@	4.2
    19	 	86.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.1%	North_Dutch	@	4.3
    20	 	87.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.4%	Norwegian	@	4.3
    So its not thing of "Northeast" part , point is Skopje is Capital and there is many mixed people with Yugoslavs, I want to say full Macedonians from Northeast part also have low Slavic/Baltic.

  13. #118
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,448
    Sex
    Location
    Sweden
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Germanic
    Nationality
    Swedish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2 / R1b-U152
    mtDNA (M)
    H1a1

    Sweden Italy Italy 1861-1946 Sami Vatican Italy Tuscany
    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Target: Luso_scaled
    Distance: 4.7388% / 0.04738787
    48.8 __LateRoman
    47.8 __Gallic
    3.4 __Finnic
    Do you have some native admix? Or is the "Finnic" (Saami) a proxy for North African again?
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 3.1640% / 0.03163963 | R3P
    64.4 __Germanic
    26.4 __IllyricRoman
    9.2 __Finnic

  14. #119
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,055
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    The amount of Slavic is on a cline with Serbs having the most then Bulgarians then Vardar Macedonians and in last place Aegean Macedonians but it depends which ones cuz actually when you get to the most southern parts of macedonia the cline would be in an East to West direction with Albanians arround Korce having the least but it being present there since there were Slavic speakers in the past in the area and then when you get to the Rhodopes they are pretty much the same as Central Balkan Mountains for instance so if we are talking about people from arround Solun they could be closer to the Rhodopeans or to the Southwestern Macedonians its a mixed zone and there you could have people with say 40% Slavic but west of Solun/Thessaloniki and Kukush/Kilkis and in Thessaly its for sure less than 40% on average but of course you can say they are 50% South Slavic or something like that it depends on what populations you would use as your model. And low is very relative term i meant arround 30% and less which Vasile and Aspar were talking about.
    I modeling modern balkaners For a quite long period i would say. My conclusion Is that their balto-slavic drift Is quite real and high even among to the most southern parts of mainland Greece. Even Greeks From Peloponnesus ploting northern and we can categorize them as the ending point of the balkanic genetic spectrum. We can say that the Balkan spectrum begins/starts with Yugoslavs(thought Croats are crearly more Slavic than the rest of South Slavs). Bulgarians-Romanians are very close to each other as well. Then you have a more Southern balkanic version Witch includes Albanians, Northern Greeks.. and North Macedonians ploting between Bulgarians/Romanians and the former(depends individual). My estimation Is that Northern Greeks/Albanians and North Macedonians range to 35-45% of balto-slavic drift with the rest being EEF with clearly Imperial Rome influences. Av2 Slozad and the New migration samples we have From CZ can give you a good idea of how % of balto-slavic drift modern balkaners got.

  15. #120
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,448
    Sex
    Location
    Sweden
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Germanic
    Nationality
    Swedish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2 / R1b-U152
    mtDNA (M)
    H1a1

    Sweden Italy Italy 1861-1946 Sami Vatican Italy Tuscany
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    LOL, I'm not sure whether you're serious or NOT, but the FORMER YUGOSLAV REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA(FYROM) was the name of the country until two years ago when it was changed to North Macedonia in order to make distinction to Greek Macedonia. However there was never such thing as 'Fyromanians' apart from the nationalistic circles and ignorant communities around the world. The people were called Macedonians back then and now. You can put the 'ethnic' remark at the beginning in order to make distinction with the Greek Macedonians yet again.

    As for us the ethnic Macedonians, we are culturally and religiously Orthodox Christians first and foremost, not sure what culturally Slavic even means? Of course we are linguistically Slavic and as it happens, we have Slavic ancestry, doesn't matter much or less. You can make a case with various other people, for example the Turks. They too don't have more than > 30% Turkic genetics although I might be wrong about the Turks so someone can correct me. And yet, they speak Turkic derived language. The Romanians, how much of original Roman, Latin ancestry they have? I might be wrong but I believe they have even less than we have Slavic and yet, the Romanians happen to speak a Latin derived language.

    I seriously hope you've been just uninformed on the matter and not trying to provoke a politically motivated fights...
    I am not here to talk geo-politics. But history and genetics.

    My political views on "Macedonia" is something i rather not discuss here.

    If a whole people change culture and language it is most of the times visible in their genetics. Hungary is a good exception of course.

    I really thought that Macedonian Slavs would have higher amounts of Balto-Slavic admixture. Like 40-50% Like Serbs for example.

    However if the Slavic amounts is around 25% I do agree that Macedonians are mostly slavized in culture and language + religion.

    And I think it is a bit easier to accept that they claim Macedonian heritage.
    Hidden Content

    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 3.1640% / 0.03163963 | R3P
    64.4 __Germanic
    26.4 __IllyricRoman
    9.2 __Finnic

Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. ph2ter's ultimate Neolithic calculator
    By ph2ter in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 141
    Last Post: 05-29-2021, 10:28 PM
  2. Simple Balkan migration calc made from t-sne plot
    By ph2ter in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-12-2021, 04:43 PM
  3. Replies: 136
    Last Post: 03-20-2021, 09:44 AM
  4. Replies: 69
    Last Post: 11-16-2017, 03:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •