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Thread: Balkan Migration calculator by ph2ter 2021

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velislav View Post
    There is demographic info from about 100-130 years ago from the then province of Macedonia - the Slavic element was never 100% - most probably other non-Slavic populations were absorbed quite recently and that shifted the modern Macedonians to the south, so no reason to search for a reason in medieval or ancient periods. This tendency would most probably proceed further with the spreading of the Albanian element eastward in the following decades.
    There is no basis for such thing because there was no large scale mixing in more recent times with some non-Slavophone populations that shifted the Macedonians to the 'south'. The Albanians as a Muslim population were no no while the Greeks as a more urban population mainly in the southern parts of Macedonia very rarely lived close to the Slavophones and almost never mixed with each other. The 'Greeks' living in more northern latitudes were simply Slavophones belonging to the Greek church and not real Greeks. The Vlachs on the other hand were always in small numbers and seeing some Vlach results recently, they don't look too different than Macedonians so I'm not sure how mixing with the Vlachs would have turned the Macedonians almost on half way between the most southern Peloponnesians and the Serbs.
    This is me by the way, unscaled modeling with G25:
    Code:
    Target: Aspar
    Distance: 1.0411% / 0.01041142
    53.0	Montenegrin
    47.0	Greek_Laconia
    
    Target: Aspar
    Distance: 1.2062% / 0.01206227
    57.4	Greek_Laconia
    42.6	Serbian
    Simply this admixture is older and it's a relict from not so recent times. The last large scale migrations of people from outside the region of Macedonia occurred during the Ottoman times when people mostly originating from South Albania and Epirus migrated towards Macedonia and Bulgaria. There is a nice article from the Bulgarian author Dimitar Yaranov about these migrants who he calls 'arnauts' although this was just an exonym applied to them by the author simply because they were coming from the Albanian lands. In reality, these were also Slavophones who probably migrated from South Albania and Epirus under the pressure of the Albanians and other Muslim populations.
    In the 14-th century the Byzantine authors have written that in Epirus and parts of Macedonia lives population who they called Voulgaro-Alvanito-Vlahos or Serv-Alvanito-Voulgaro-Vlahos. This speaks very clearly about the symbiosis of different ethnicities in the regions of Epirus and Macedonia during the 14-th century where the Slavic dialects prevailed over the Albanian and Vlach ones. This is the exact population which migrated later during the Ottoman times to Bulgaria and Macedonia and which might have caused further shifting of the Slavophone populations as you say to 'south'.
    One noble and particular member of these 'Serv-Alvanito-Voulgaro-Vlahos' people was Vonko, who conquered Arta from the Spata family in 1400.
    In fact, mixing with non-Slavic, latinophone populations probably occurred as early as the Vlach appeared on the scene. Simply there were too many Vlachs in Macedonia and Bulgaria during the 12-th, 13-th and 14-th century for them to disappear in thin air. People such as Dobromir Chrysos or Ivanko are some notable examples of early Vlachs in Bulgaria and Macedonia. Paisij of Hilandar mentions that Kaloyan of Bulgaria who was himself of Vlach origin forced the Vlachs to use the Slavonic language in church so probably there was some very early assimilation of Vlach population in the Bulgarian Kingdom...
    Last edited by Aspar; 05-11-2021 at 08:01 PM.
    Distance to: Aspar_scaled
    0.01995435 35.00% HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2 + 65.00% ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR65
    0.02156914 40.60% HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1 + 59.40% ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR65
    0.02223177 55.20% Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8215 + 44.80% UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine:MJ19
    0.02300447 61.80% BGR_IA:I5769 + 38.20% UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine:MJ19

  2. #132
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    Just got my coords everyone, I really have no clue what I am doing but feel free to mess around with some calculators and perhaps assist me to interpret them! Thanks!

    Excine_scaled,0.12862,0.141159,0.018479,-0.017119,0.028313,-0.01506,0.000235,0.001846,0.004909,0.022051,0.0004 87,-0.001349,-0.005352,0.008945,-0.018594,-0.000265,0.01017,0.006841,0.004148,-0.009505,-0.012728,0.000742,-0.003821,0.002651,-0.002515

    Excine,0.0113,0.0139,0.0049,-0.0053,0.0092,-0.0054,0.0001,0.0008,0.0024,0.0121,0.0003,-0.0009,-0.0036,0.0065,-0.0137,-0.0002,0.0078,0.0054,0.0033,-0.0076,-0.0102,0.0006,-0.0031,0.0022,-0.0021

    (NOTE) I am fully Albanian on both sides and no other ancestry known.
    “To Maltsia e madhe I first turned my steps–not to see the mountains, but to see life, history, the world, and the great unknown, as it looks to the mountain man.”
    - Edith Durham

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  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by excine View Post
    Just got my coords everyone, I really have no clue what I am doing but feel free to mess around with some calculators and perhaps assist me to interpret them! Thanks!

    Excine_scaled,0.12862,0.141159,0.018479,-0.017119,0.028313,-0.01506,0.000235,0.001846,0.004909,0.022051,0.0004 87,-0.001349,-0.005352,0.008945,-0.018594,-0.000265,0.01017,0.006841,0.004148,-0.009505,-0.012728,0.000742,-0.003821,0.002651,-0.002515

    Excine,0.0113,0.0139,0.0049,-0.0053,0.0092,-0.0054,0.0001,0.0008,0.0024,0.0121,0.0003,-0.0009,-0.0036,0.0065,-0.0137,-0.0002,0.0078,0.0054,0.0033,-0.0076,-0.0102,0.0006,-0.0031,0.0022,-0.0021

    (NOTE) I am fully Albanian on both sides and no other ancestry known.
    You're Albanian from Montenegro, right?

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  6. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    You're Albanian from Montenegro, right?
    Yes I am!
    “To Maltsia e madhe I first turned my steps–not to see the mountains, but to see life, history, the world, and the great unknown, as it looks to the mountain man.”
    - Edith Durham

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  8. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by excine View Post
    Yes I am!
    Your results are very typical for an Albanian. I often see that Albanians with Montenegro have higher amounts of Slavic ancestry, but your results dont seem to conform to that generality. In fact, you are shifted towards Sardinia/Bronze Age Balkans compared to the G25 Albanian average. The two way model below has you as predominately of Balkan_IA stock, with the remainder being Slavic. Do you mind posting your dodecad K12b results?

    "26.1% Russian_Kursk + 73.9% BGR_IA" "0.0172"

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  10. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Your results are very typical for an Albanian. I often see that Albanians with Montenegro have higher amounts of Slavic ancestry, but your results dont seem to conform to that generality. In fact, you are shifted towards Sardinia/Bronze Age Balkans compared to the G25 Albanian average. The two way model below has you as predominately of Balkan_IA stock, with the remainder being Slavic. Do you mind posting your dodecad K12b results?

    "26.1% Russian_Kursk + 73.9% BGR_IA" "0.0172"
    yeah I noticed, I'm not as northern shifted as the rest. Perhaps this might explain something I have no clue, my Dad's side is from a remote village in Montenegro and were quite oftenly in conflict with the slavs. Mom's side however I would not doubt, only my point of view of course, then again I may be overthinking everything, we migrated nearly 330 years ago to montenegro from a mountainous area in the northern tip of Albania. With that being said here are my K12b results.

    k12b.png
    “To Maltsia e madhe I first turned my steps–not to see the mountains, but to see life, history, the world, and the great unknown, as it looks to the mountain man.”
    - Edith Durham

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  12. #137
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    France France Limousin France Bourgogne France Lyon France Auvergne France Dauphiné
    Quote Originally Posted by excine View Post
    Just got my coords everyone, I really have no clue what I am doing but feel free to mess around with some calculators and perhaps assist me to interpret them! Thanks!

    Excine_scaled,0.12862,0.141159,0.018479,-0.017119,0.028313,-0.01506,0.000235,0.001846,0.004909,0.022051,0.0004 87,-0.001349,-0.005352,0.008945,-0.018594,-0.000265,0.01017,0.006841,0.004148,-0.009505,-0.012728,0.000742,-0.003821,0.002651,-0.002515

    Excine,0.0113,0.0139,0.0049,-0.0053,0.0092,-0.0054,0.0001,0.0008,0.0024,0.0121,0.0003,-0.0009,-0.0036,0.0065,-0.0137,-0.0002,0.0078,0.0054,0.0033,-0.0076,-0.0102,0.0006,-0.0031,0.0022,-0.0021

    (NOTE) I am fully Albanian on both sides and no other ancestry known.
    Your results:
    Target: Excine_scaled
    Distance: 2.1506% / 0.02150561
    87.2 __IllyricRoman
    12.8 __Slavic

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  14. #138
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    France France Limousin France Bourgogne France Lyon France Auvergne France Dauphiné
    My Father (Limousin, France):
    Target: Fitis_Father_scaled
    Distance: 2.7809% / 0.02780906
    89.0 __Gallic
    10.0 __LateRoman
    1.0 __Germanic

    My Mother (Burgundy + Rhône-Alpes, France):
    Target: Fitis_Mom_scaled
    Distance: 2.4680% / 0.02467959
    79.2 __Gallic
    17.8 __IllyricRoman
    1.6 __Hunnic
    1.4 __Germanic
    Last edited by Fitis; 05-14-2021 at 04:11 PM.

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  16. #139
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    ph2ter, on which samples did you base the Germanic component?

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  18. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambron View Post
    ph2ter, on which samples did you base the Germanic component?
    Mostly Iron Age samples from Denmark, Norway and Sweden and several very Germanic Longobards and Bavarians:

    50_VK2020_DNK_Jutland_IA__VK582
    100_VK2020_DNK_Sealand_IA__VK532
    300_VK2020_DNK_Sealand_IA__VK521
    400_VK2020_DNK_Sealand_IA__VK213
    350_VK2020_NOR_North_IA__VK418
    500_VK2020_NOR_South_IA__VK390
    500_VK2020_NOR_South_IA__VK391
    386_VK2020_SWE_Oland_IA__VK522
    460_England_Saxon__I0773
    505_HUN_MA_Szolad__SZ9
    671_ITA_Collegno_MA__CL151
    505_HUN_MA_Szolad__SZ16
    495_DEU_MA__STR_316
    505_DEU_MA__AED_106
     
    All simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps and calculations I ask for a donation via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account

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