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Thread: K's and Ashkenazim

  1. #1
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    K's and Ashkenazim

    check out Marta D. Costa's 2013 paper, "A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages." I think, 30% of all Ashkenzim are in K. From what I can tell, every complete haplogroup K mitogenome available was used. It was done after Behar's massive 8,000 novel familytreedna sequences were added, so it was very comprehensive. Any tagged information such as ethnicity, origin locality or the like was also indicated. Coalescence dates for the individual haplogroups was also generated.
    An earlier paper that had a similar impact on haplogroup K studies was a 2006 Ashkenazim study by Doron Behar.
    David Powell
    dp :-)
    Grace and good eure and long prosperitee. [Lydg. Mum. Goldsmiths]

    ysearch/mitosearch id: atr94 GENBANK/ENA mtDNA id: KF703542 member ISOGG

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    Already some threads on this with salient critiques of Costa's methods:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...mtDNA-lineages

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...the-News/page6
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    I'm not sure about K1a9 but K1a1b1a and K2a2 clearly nest among European lineages.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...html#subclades

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    Dear Longbowman,
    Being nested within a larger (European) clade --not that K is large-- and being a distinct downstream (Jewish) clade are different things. Yep, they all are probably derived from European mothers, of various K haplogroups, say 1800 years ago, but the groups diverged. At some point Jewish men had to have interbred with a European women from each haplogroup, and the descendants of these women over time have come to predominate the European Jewish genetic pool. It's remarkable to think that millions of people can share a handful of ancestors in just two millenia. The closest analog, for a similar time period, I can think of at the moment is the haplotype of Mongols descended from the Khans [see Wikipedia - suggested 25 Marker "Genghis Khan" Y-DNA Profile by FamilyTreeDNA], and maybe the up to 40% Irish men that have the M222 SNP.
    dp :-)
    Last edited by dp; 01-27-2015 at 06:24 PM.
    Grace and good eure and long prosperitee. [Lydg. Mum. Goldsmiths]

    ysearch/mitosearch id: atr94 GENBANK/ENA mtDNA id: KF703542 member ISOGG

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Powell View Post
    Dear Longbowman,
    Being nested within a larger (European) clade --not that K is large-- and being a distinct downstream (Jewish) clade are different things. Yep, they all are probably derived from European mothers, of various K haplogroups, say 1800 years ago, but the groups diverged. At some point Jewish men had to have interbred with a European women from each haplogroup, and the descendants of these women over time have come to predominate the European Jewish genetic pool. It's remarkable to think that millions of people can share a handful of ancestors in just two millenia. The closest analog, for a similar time period, I can think of at the moment is the haplotype of Mongols descended from the Khans [see Wikipedia - suggested 25 Marker "Genghis Khan" Y-DNA Profile by FamilyTreeDNA], and maybe the up to 40% Irish men that have the M222 SNP.
    dp :-)
    which mtdna K subclades are predominate jewish women?....................mtdna K is far far older than the jewish faith, clearly only some subclades can be associated as from a jewish line the rest cannot be


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    which mtdna K subclades are predominate jewish women?....................mtdna K is far far older than the jewish faith, clearly only some subclades can be associated as from a jewish line the rest cannot be
    K1a9, K2a2, K1a1b1a.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Powell View Post
    Dear Longbowman,
    Being nested within a larger (European) clade --not that K is large-- and being a distinct downstream (Jewish) clade are different things. Yep, they all are probably derived from European mothers, of various K haplogroups, say 1800 years ago, but the groups diverged. At some point Jewish men had to have interbred with a European women from each haplogroup, and the descendants of these women over time have come to predominate the European Jewish genetic pool. It's remarkable to think that millions of people can share a handful of ancestors in just two millenia. The closest analog, for a similar time period, I can think of at the moment is the haplotype of Mongols descended from the Khans [see Wikipedia - suggested 25 Marker "Genghis Khan" Y-DNA Profile by FamilyTreeDNA], and maybe the up to 40% Irish men that have the M222 SNP.
    dp :-)
    I believed this to be true anyhow; what are you reading from my post that disagrees with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    which mtdna K subclades are predominate jewish women?....................mtdna K is far far older than the jewish faith, clearly only some subclades can be associated as from a jewish line the rest cannot be
    AJL answered your first part of your question. To address the second, I said and quote myself
    Quote Originally Posted by David Powell
    nested within a larger (European) clade
    dp :-)
    Grace and good eure and long prosperitee. [Lydg. Mum. Goldsmiths]

    ysearch/mitosearch id: atr94 GENBANK/ENA mtDNA id: KF703542 member ISOGG

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  13. #9
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    I'm K1a9, so what does this mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    I'm K1a9, so what does this mean?
    Typical Ashkenazi clade. Possibly ultimately European in origin.

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