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Thread: Is it worth taking another 23andme test?

  1. #11
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    I think there’s a couple things at play. Many Americans are a weird mixture of English and German going back hundreds of years so it’s like their dna fabric gets complicated and almost impossible to separate the two. Or, if they are separated it doesn’t mKe sense from a genealogical standpoint. Add the fact that 23 and me has a broadly category can theoretically confuse the situation. I still think 23 and me is the best currently available for most people and they are very good at identifying the “other” in peoples dna. It’s just that the NW channel areas can get complicated.
    distance%=4.6465"
    Barcin_N,47.2
    Yamnaya_Samara,41.4
    WHG,10.6
    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    I think there’s a couple things at play. Many Americans are a weird mixture of English and German going back hundreds of years so it’s like their dna fabric gets complicated and almost impossible to separate the two. Or, if they are separated it doesn’t mKe sense from a genealogical standpoint. Add the fact that 23 and me has a broadly category can theoretically confuse the situation. I still think 23 and me is the best currently available for most people and they are very good at identifying the “other” in peoples dna. It’s just that the NW channel areas can get complicated.
    The truth is quite simple. In many calculators there is an overlap and its hard to distinguish some North Western Celtic from Germanic groups at the percents, how should it be easy or even possible to distinguish Anglo-Saxon-like people on both sides of the channel with any high certainty?

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The truth is quite simple. In many calculators there is an overlap and its hard to distinguish some North Western Celtic from Germanic groups at the percents, how should it be easy or even possible to distinguish Anglo-Saxon-like people on both sides of the channel with any high certainty?
    Exactly. I’m of the opinion that the Dna science regarding this needs to be the next “breakthrough”, at least in terms of moving the science and methods along. That actually happening tho, I have no idea how they’d manage. I dont know enough about this to really say. It’s going to continue to be a crapshoot until then.
    distance%=4.6465"
    Barcin_N,47.2
    Yamnaya_Samara,41.4
    WHG,10.6
    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    Exactly. I’m of the opinion that the Dna science regarding this needs to be the next “breakthrough”, at least in terms of moving the science and methods along. That actually happening tho, I have no idea how they’d manage. I dont know enough about this to really say. It’s going to continue to be a crapshoot until then.
    The basic method of 23andme is one of the best, they go segment by segment, which is what makes the difference if you search for population level IBD. However, to really make it happen, you need to have an even larger sample and more intelligent algorithm to decide for microsegments. But even then there has to remain a level of uncertainty simply because the same Celtic, Germanic and Roman segments can be shared on both sides of the channel. This can best be solved by the smoothing effect, which however gets in trouble if the number of "undecided" segments in a given individual gets too big. Apparently, at the current state of things, that's happening still quite often, but its not as bad generally speaking.
    Would be interesting to check whether some English regions and ancestries are more inclined to get higher English values. And quite obviously, its always more right to give British German than vice versa, because simple put, there was no large scale Anglo-Saxon back migration. So to give English some percent German makes sense in the order of things, the opposite, much less so. The overlap gets smaller and smaller with every update, so better for the vast majority of testers, but the smoothing side effects also, but this made it worse for a smaller number of people I'd say, probably with rather specific genetic profiles even. For Central Europeans it was bad and it just got better with every update at 23andme.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The basic method of 23andme is one of the best, they go segment by segment, which is what makes the difference if you search for population level IBD. However, to really make it happen, you need to have an even larger sample and more intelligent algorithm to decide for microsegments. But even then there has to remain a level of uncertainty simply because the same Celtic, Germanic and Roman segments can be shared on both sides of the channel. This can best be solved by the smoothing effect, which however gets in trouble if the number of "undecided" segments in a given individual gets too big. Apparently, at the current state of things, that's happening still quite often, but its not as bad generally speaking.
    Would be interesting to check whether some English regions and ancestries are more inclined to get higher English values. And quite obviously, its always more right to give British German than vice versa, because simple put, there was no large scale Anglo-Saxon back migration. So to give English some percent German makes sense in the order of things, the opposite, much less so. The overlap gets smaller and smaller with every update, so better for the vast majority of testers, but the smoothing side effects also, but this made it worse for a smaller number of people I'd say, probably with rather specific genetic profiles even. For Central Europeans it was bad and it just got better with every update at 23andme.
    Also not forgetting wave after wave of Flemish migrants who came to Britain in the late Middle Ages and up until the 17th century. I doubt it was quite as earth shattering as the Anglo Saxon invasions, but it could blur the genetic lines even more. There could be towns in England with inhabitants who are more similar to people across the channel than they are to English people from the other side of the country.

    Actually now wondering whether some of my Swedish and Danish matches might have Flemish ancestors.

    People marvel at how close NW European people are. I think it’s because they’ve been continuously mixing to greater and lesser amounts since history began, and have never really stopped.
    Last edited by lana6765; 05-10-2021 at 10:43 PM.

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lana6765 View Post
    Also not forgetting wave after wave of Flemish migrants who came to Britain in the late Middle Ages and up until the 17th century. I doubt it was quite as earth shattering as the Anglo Saxon invasions, but it could blur the genetic lines even more. There could be towns in England with inhabitants who are more similar to people across the channel than they are to English people from the other side of the country.

    Actually now wondering whether some of my Swedish and Danish matches might have Flemish ancestors.
    I know that all my Scandinavian matches high enough and with a tree good enough have continental ancestors from some of my family branches in the last 500 years. Same goes for the English matches, as long as they are real at all. The English are really peculiar as they had their colonies, to which many, many emigrated. But to the European continent, not as many did migrate, but vice versa through the ages, all the time, with well known peaks. Like Iron Age Celts, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans, Dutch-Flemish and so on. All these connect them with the continent and not just the pure Anglo-Saxons, but also the mixture of the components is pretty similar between the English and the Dutch-NW Germans.

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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    they extremely smoothed me out to 87% German. LOL
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post712265
    distance%=4.6465"
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    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8

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  14. #18
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    I need to correct something I said earlier it was actually ADNtro that gave me 87% German after they did a revision. It was based on raw data sent to them. My apologies to 23/. I have to correct myself again I went back and looked on the ADNtro thread and see where I mentioned the 23 data results. I guess they revised it that's the one I screenshot. Either way if you do the test again what do you really have to lose? They always have some type of deal where the cost is low. It probably won't lineup very well with the G25 population samples anyway, and the G25 data seems to be the measuring stick here.
    Last edited by JerryS.; 05-12-2021 at 01:29 AM.

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