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Thread: What Iranian population and what Gujarati population did Parsis mix with?

  1. #21
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    Interesting article on the decline of the Parsi community in India:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cient-religion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    What do you mean?
    Parsis seems to have assimilated from low to High AASI groups and may not originate from a single place or from a single ethnic group from Iran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post

    What about the Iranian ancestry present in Parsis? Any reason why it's a Western Iranian Farsi/Lori type if group? We claim descent from modern-day Afghanistan/Khorasan, Hormuz and even Sari in Mazanderan (most people speculate that the Parsi populated Nav-Sari in Gujarat is named after that capital of Iran. Hence the name Navsari meaning new Sari). Basically, all over Iran. Yet Parsis on G25 generally show a more Western Iranian source. What could be the reason for this? Maybe I need to see more samples to be sure.

    Zoroastrians from Sari who migrated to India in the 10th century founded there a city which they named "Navu Sari" (English: "New Sari"), a name which was by now shortened to Navsari; the town is still a center of the Zoroastrian Parsi community of India.

    The Chalukyas (IAST: Cālukya) of Navasarika (modern Navsari) were an Indian dynasty that ruled parts of present-day Gujarat and Maharashtra during 7th and 8th centuries, as vassals of the Chalukyas of Vatapi. They are also known as the "Early Chalukyas of Gujarat" (as opposed to the later Chalukyas of Gujarat).
    Dharashraya's eldest son was Shryashraya Shiladitya (IAST: Śrayāśraya Śilādtiya).[3] An inscription of Shryashraya, issued by him as the crown prince (yuvaraja), is dated to 23 May 668 (year 420 of the Kalachuri era).
    How accurate is the claim of the 10th century if a city by the name of Navsari was preset before 668 AD.?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaluk...aya_Shiladitya
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sari,_Iran

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Interesting article on the decline of the Parsi community in India:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cient-religion
    I think the user Jatt shared this article before. It talks about conversions and burial I think.

    People keep arguing about how conversions should be allowed, but even if conversions are allowed and half-Parsis are accepted, the Parsi identity (as a genetic and cultural identity) will die out though Zoroastrianism won't. It's inevitable lol. If we keep accepting half Parsis and allowing converts, the Parsi identity won't be an identity genetically speaking.

    Regardless, Parsis are basically South Asian. So not much will be lost, but it's still sad that the Parsis face extinction as a cultural group.

    The article below written by a non-Parsi perfectly describes it. He says culturally it's impossible to tell a Parsi apart from an Indian though there are some distinguishing factors. He talks about the contribution of Parsis as well.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dec...ugar-milk.html

    "The integration of Parsis in the Indian culture has been so smooth that today, except for their distinctive features, attire as worn by the older generation, and their religious rituals, itís impossible to tell a Parsi apart from other Indians. "

    "Think of any profession and itís very likely that they have excelled in it. Besides achieving success in their respective fields and becoming world famous, they have made a great difference to the progress of India, be it in industry, business, science, sports, medicine, legal, banking and finance, arts and other fields."

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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    How accurate is the claim of the 10th century if a city by the name of Navsari was preset before 668 AD.?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaluk...aya_Shiladitya
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sari,_Iran
    "Before “Navsari” name was finalized different name like Naagvardhan, Naagshahi, Naagsharala, Navsareh, Nagmandal and Paarsipuri writing is available."

    Navsari came about in the 13th century when priestly families settled there. I think that's when its name was finalized. Although a name that sounded similar to Navsari may have been used to refer to the city even before Parsis came.

    https://navsari.nic.in/history/
    Gujarat's government talks about this. We don't know for sure, but we think this is how the name came about.

    Many towns in India have the same name as Iranian towns I've noticed.
    My own surname, could be named after Maku in Iran or Maku in Manipur/Gujarat. There are many such town names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    "Before “Navsari” name was finalized different name like Naagvardhan, Naagshahi, Naagsharala, Navsareh, Nagmandal and Paarsipuri writing is available."

    Navsari came about in the 13th century when priestly families settled there. I think that's when its name was finalized. Although a name that sounded similar to Navsari may have been used to refer to the city even before Parsis came.

    https://navsari.nic.in/history/
    Gujarat's government talks about this. We don't know for sure, but we think this is how the name came about.

    Many towns in India have the same name as Iranian towns I've noticed.
    My own surname, could be named after Maku in Iran or Maku in Manipur/Gujarat. There are many such town names.

    Only Navsareh can be cognate with Navsari I believe, others have different meanings. paarsipuri is relevent but different.

    It is identified with "Nusaripa", a city mentioned in Ptolemy's 2nd-century Greek-language work Geography.[4]
    Claudius Ptolemy (/ˈtɒləmi/; Koinē Greek: Κλαύδιος Πτολεμαῖος, Klaķdios PtolemaÓos [klŠwdios ptolɛmɛ́os]; Latin: Claudius Ptolemaeus; c. 100 – c. 170 AD)[2]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navsari

    The earliest evidence is from the 2nd Century itself.


    Sari may be synonymous with the city of Zadracarta (Persian: Sadrakarta) mentioned by Ancient Greek sources as early as the 6th century BCE (Achaemenid dynasty).[7]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sari,_Iran#Early_history

    Ancient Silk Road.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_R...strasseGMT.JPG

    Ancient Silk Road either likely had passed through sari or close to it.

    The Fourth Route: The Tus Road extends to the ancient city of Rey and in the limits of Beihagh and Jovein is divided into two and in Bastam the two are joined again and the Gorgan Road is added and it is again divided into two in Ghoomes (with a secondary road towards Mazandaran), the main road finally leads to the vast fields of Rey-Qazvin.
    https://www.grin.com/document/425632


    So, Sari was an ancient and well-known place, both populous and well connected through trade or likely major trading city. Major cities would also be usually diverse with people from neighboring regions/ethnicities.


    Sanskrit has word sari but not used for naming any placename and google search not yielding any result for any popular placename with Sārī in India/South Asia only a few remote towns local pronunciation of sari may or may not be the same as Sārī.

    https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/shari
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 05-11-2021 at 10:43 PM.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Only Navsareh can be cognate with Navsari I believe, others have different meanings. paarsipuri is relevent but different.




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navsari

    The earliest evidence is from the 2nd Century itself.




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sari,_Iran#Early_history

    Ancient Silk Road.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_R...strasseGMT.JPG

    Ancient Silk Road either likely had passed through sari or close to it.



    https://www.grin.com/document/425632


    So, Sari was an ancient and well-known place, both populous and well connected through trade or likely major trading city. Major cities would also be usually diverse with people from neighboring regions/ethnicities.


    Sanskrit has word sari but not used for naming any placename and google search not yielding any result for any popular placename with Sārī in India/South Asia only a few remote towns local pronunciation of sari may or may not be the same as Sārī.

    https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/shari
    Didn't some Parsis migrate from Yazd too? there is still a Zoroasterian community there today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Didn't some Parsis migrate from Yazd too? there is still a Zoroasterian community there today.
    Parsis came from all over Iran. You said it's that way genetically as well.

    The later Iranis migrated predominantly from Yazd, Kerman (mostly these two places) and Isfahan as well as Tehran. in the late 19th-20th century. They are genetically identical to Iranian Zoroastrians.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....e-and-genetics

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    Someone can use mine to map through if they want

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    Quote Originally Posted by midichlorian View Post
    Someone can use mine to map through if they want
    Have you posted your results before?

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