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Thread: What Iranian population and what Gujarati population did Parsis mix with?

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    What Iranian population and what Gujarati population did Parsis mix with?

    Title.

    Based of our oral legacy, Parsis came from around Afghanistan/Khorasan. However genetically, I get better fits when I model Parsis with a West Iran-like population. This is why I am very confused. Does it vary from sample to sample?

    What Gujarati population did Parsis mix with? I think it was a South-Indian Gujarati Patel type of population but it could have been a high caste Gujarati population as well. Parsis have always been considered as 'high-caste' for various reasons despite not being Hindu or belonging to the caste system.

    I can't accurately pinpoint the Iranian population we came from and the Gujarati population we mixed into. Please someone help me out haha.

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    On G25, Parsis from India can be modeled as a two-way mix between Iranians from Fars Province and Gujarati Patels:

    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 1.1672% / 0.01167156
    78.0 Iranian_Fars
    22.0 Gujarati


    When I tried other Iranian groups, the fits were not as good:

    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 3.4408% / 0.03440817
    93.0 Iranian_Bandari
    7.0 Gujarati


    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 2.2293% / 0.02229268
    77.8 Iranian_Mazandarani
    22.2 Gujarati

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingeo View Post
    On G25, Parsis from India can be modeled as a two-way mix between Iranians from Fars Province and Gujarati Patels:

    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 1.1672% / 0.01167156
    78.0 Iranian_Fars
    22.0 Gujarati


    When I tried other Iranian groups, the fits were not as good:

    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 3.4408% / 0.03440817
    93.0 Iranian_Bandari
    7.0 Gujarati


    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 2.2293% / 0.02229268
    77.8 Iranian_Mazandarani
    22.2 Gujarati
    Is the 'Gujarat' sample you used Gujarati Patels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    Is the 'Gujarat' sample you used Gujarati Patels?
    I am not sure. I am assuming the 'Gujarati' on g25 are Patels, but I could be wrong. Looking at their individual AASI levels (35-40%), I am assuming they're Patels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingeo View Post
    I am not sure. I am assuming the 'Gujarati' on g25 are Patels, but I could be wrong. Looking at their individual AASI levels (35-40%), I am assuming they're Patels.
    It's interesting because the 'Gujarat_Patel' sample on Harrapa world Vahaduo is closest to South Indian populations but the 'Gujarat' sample on G25 Vahaduo is closest to Pakistanis like Lahoris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    It's interesting because the 'Gujarat_Patel' sample on Harrapa world Vahaduo is closest to South Indian populations but the 'Gujarat' sample on G25 Vahaduo is closest to Pakistanis like Lahoris.
    The 8 G25 Pakistani Punjabi samples from Lahore are from a dalit substrate of the PJL (Punjabi Lahore) samples, which number around 100 total (of parent-children pairs and other random samples from individuals who self identify as Punjabi). They don't even show up in the admixture oracles of Punjabi users on this forum (or at distances of over 10-11 on G25 for us; which is absolutely insane for the same ethnic group). So, the similarity they have to some Gujarati data on G25 suggests the Gujarati data is likely coming from Hindu Patels.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 05-09-2021 at 01:50 PM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    The 8 G25 Pakistani Punjabi samples from Lahore are from a dalit substrate of the PJL (Punjabi Lahore) samples, which number around 100 total (of parent-children samples from individuals who self identify as Punjabi). They don't even show up in the admixture oracles of Punjabi users on this forum (or at distances of over 10-11 on G25 for us). So, the similarity they have to some Gujarati data on G25 suggests the Gujarati data is likely coming from Hindu Patels.
    Thanks this clears all my doubts. I was very confused why the Lahori sample had such large distances to other Punjab samples.

    What about the Iranian ancestry present in Parsis? Any reason why it's a Western Iranian Farsi/Lori type if group? We claim descent from modern-day Afghanistan/Khorasan, Hormuz and even Sari in Mazanderan (most people speculate that the Parsi populated Nav-Sari in Gujarat is named after that capital of Iran. Hence the name Navsari meaning new Sari). Basically, all over Iran. Yet Parsis on G25 generally show a more Western Iranian source. What could be the reason for this? Maybe I need to see more samples to be sure.

    If Parsis were considered higher caste, what could be the reason they mixed mostly with the Patel of Gujarat? Are Patels the same as Gujarati Patidars? Parsis even adopted the surname Patel and it's used very frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    Thanks this clears all my doubts. I was very confused why the Lahori sample had such large distances to other Punjab samples.

    What about the Iranian ancestry present in Parsis? Any reason why it's a Western Iranian Farsi/Lori type if group? We claim descent from modern-day Afghanistan/Khorasan, Hormuz and even Sari in Mazanderan (most people speculate that the Parsi populated Nav-Sari in Gujarat is named after that capital of Iran. Hence the name Navsari meaning new Sari). Basically, all over Iran. Yet Parsis on G25 generally show a more Western Iranian source. What could be the reason for this? Maybe I need to see more samples to be sure.

    If Parsis were considered higher caste, what could be the reason they mixed mostly with the Patel of Gujarat? Are Patels the same as Gujarati Patidars? Parsis even adopted the surname Patel and it's used very frequently.
    Do u guys own a lot of car dealership business in Canada?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shujauddin View Post
    Do u guys own a lot of car dealership business in Canada?
    Personally no. I guess some Parsis or Iranis do own car dealership businesses. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shujauddin View Post
    Do u guys own a lot of car dealership business in Canada?
    Lots of Iranians do, generally they have used car lots, they are the major player in the used car business in the Greater Vancouver area of BC, Canada.

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