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Thread: Semargl site closed down.

  1. #1
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    Semargl site closed down.

    http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/
    Obviously due to this. http://dna-explained.com/

    Personally I feel the Semargl site is useful and not malicious. Really in this day and age most people have to realize what they put out there on the internet is public. It is a double edge sword with technology, and these guys are filling a void that FTDNA could not. The hysterics in that blog for sensationalism is sad. Quite frankly I'm glad that my brother's results are included in the Ashkenazi Q1b at Semargl. The Haplogroup Q Project at FTDNA does not bother to list project members by individual SNPs. EDIT TO ADD-That project does not even list the project members by subclade in any reasonable viewing order to compare haplotypes, another reason Semargl was helpful. Really Q1bs listed then Q1as, then another subclade of Q1bs??? Too confusing for me to look at!
    Last edited by Táltos; 04-07-2014 at 04:07 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Sad indeed. I agree that it was providing a service that FTDNA would never get around to doing, even if its always-in-a-muddle IT department could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Táltos View Post
    http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/
    Obviously due to this. http://dna-explained.com/
    Really in this day and age most people have to realize what they put out there on the internet is public.
    Sad to see that semargl site is closed down. I hate those people like the hypocritical blogger Roberta Estes of dna-explained.com: Wasting almost 5,000 words of BS just to say: "In my head the Cold War isn't over". BTW, she is doing the same as semargl, just not as quick as semargl, just not as good as semargl, just not for free
    http://www.dnaxplain.com/shop/features.aspx


    1. Everybody who joins a public DNA project should understand that the data are public. End of story.

    2. Much, much worse: Everybody who joins a public FTDNA project should know that not only FTDNA employees but also volunteer administrators of FTDNA projects with unknown background and unknown history have access to private information of all project participants including name, postal address, phone number, and email address.

    BTW, the blogger Roberta Estes of dna-explained.com is such an administrator and thus, she has access to private data of thousands of project members.

    Roberta manages over 20 surname projects and is the founder of the Lost Colony DNA research projects. Her regional Cumberland Gap Yline and mitochondrial DNA projects have several thousand participants. She also co-administers several Native American and African DNA projects and serves in an advisory capacity for the Melungeon project and other groups.
    Last edited by Palisto; 04-07-2014 at 08:40 AM.

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    On reflection, I don't know why the owners felt compelled to shut down the site because Ms Estes doesn't like it. Borrowing from the Duke of Wellington I say publish and be damned!
    Last edited by GTC; 04-07-2014 at 10:11 AM.

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    The blog post has many debatable points, but I will initially address the one most obvious to me.

    I am not a lawyer and I do not mean to give legal advice, but according to my understanding...

    Copyright law does extend to Russia through the Berne Convention. However, a copyright does not cover a fact, idea, or principle, only the expression of it.

    The STR counts associated with a kit number are facts. They cannot be copyrighted, although their stylistic formatting on a page can.

    One could argue that the specific order in which the STR counts are listed is copyrightable; but probably not--according to the "merger doctrine" (and the similar "functionality doctrine" of trademark law)--if one order is much more useful than others. If one company and its ordering dominate the market, that company may have great legal difficulty insisting that everyone else must use a different (i.e., nonstandard) order--in fact, such insistence may be an antitrust violation.

    The bottom line is that FTDNA must certainly have one or more staff lawyers. If they seriously believe that a web site infringes on their copyright, they are free to take any action required, ranging from a private warning to a public announcement to a lawsuit. I do not know of FTDNA taking any such action with respect to the discussed site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTC View Post
    On reflection, I don't know why the owners felt compelled to shut down the site because Ms Estes doesn't like it. Borrowing from the Duke of Wellington I say publish and be damned!
    Nothing against the work of semargl as such. In principle every additional analysis of our data is welcome. However, I would be grateful being asked before. If we give our DNA to FTDNA or other companies, this does not imply aggreement for each and every third party to use it as well. Probably I would give this aggreement. But, I would like to have an explanation before, who this semargl is. Palisto, it's not very useful, in my opinion, to insult other people. There is an issue concerning (DNA)-data protection and it must be addressed. I am sure there is a way for semargl to continue his/her work.
    Known ancestry: 92.6% German (66.8% North German), 4.7% Danish, 1.8% Czech, 0.8% Austrian, 0.1% Swiss.
    EUROGENES K13: N German, N Dutch, DNK, SWE, NOR. Ancestry: Germanic 99%, Baltic 1%. LM: NOR, DNK, NLD, N-DEU, SWE.
    23andMe: NW Europe 82.5% (French/German 50.2%, Scandinavian 9.1%, British/Irish 3.2%), East Europe 11.5%, South Europe 1.5%. DNAL: NW Euro 81%, NE Euro 11%, Med 6.5%
    Y-DNA: R1b/U152/Z36/CTS4333, Thuringia 1634, probably Alsace 1552, -- mt-DNA: H

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    What a shame. A great tool has been lost and the clock on y-dna research has just turned back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CelticGerman View Post
    Nothing against the work of semargl as such. In principle every additional analysis of our data is welcome. However, I would be grateful being asked before. If we give our DNA to FTDNA or other companies, this does not imply aggreement for each and every third party to use it as well. Probably I would give this aggreement. But, I would like to have an explanation before, who this semargl is. Palisto, it's not very useful, in my opinion, to insult other people. There is an issue concerning (DNA)-data protection and it must be addressed. I am sure there is a way for semargl to continue his/her work.
    And how many people would reply to an email asking if their dna can be transferred from FTDNA's public site to his (gasp) Russian site? Most people likely would not respond. Semargl's site lists the same STR markers, in the same format, as FTDNA. How is there even a question about data protection? Your data is already out there. By the way, a Google search will get me the same results, and then some. As far as I am concerned, when you join a project you make your data public. I can go on FTDNA's website and access every single project and see the same information that semargl offered, only he did it in a more organized, and thus informative fashion.

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    She says she has known about the site for more than a year yet waits until her husbands tirade before blogging. Will the yahoo groups be next in her firing line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muircheartaigh View Post
    She says she has known about the site for more than a year yet waits until her husbands tirade before blogging. Will the yahoo groups be next in her firing line?
    There are others who access this information too. I won't say, but do a Google search with your FTDNA id number and you will see the results. There is nothing nefarious going on here. It is a simple transfer of the same data listed on FTDNA's public project sites. If one doesn't want their STR markers listed, then don't join a project. All this information is accessible on FTDNA by the way. And you don't need to be a member. Just do a Google search and they show because they are public.

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